So Larry, earlier in the month I asked the chairs if nvo3 was ready to talk and 
explore solutions. The answer was no. 

Then why is GENEVE on the agenda chairs?

Dino

> On Feb 28, 2014, at 1:57 PM, "Larry Kreeger (kreeger)" <[email protected]> 
> wrote:
> 
> I see that a healthy discussion has broken out around draft-gross-geneve-00 
> which I see has a slot in the agenda for the NVO3 WG meeting on Monday.  Here 
> are my thoughts.
> 
> I will be comparing Geneve to an encapsulation that is near and dear to my 
> heart, VXLAN.  When I do this, I see an encapsulation that is very similar to 
> VXLAN (e.g. uses UDP, uses a 24-bit segment identifier at the same offset).  
> I see three things that Geneve adds beyond what is available in 
> draft-mahalingam-dutt-dcops-vxlan:
> 
> 1) The ability to encapsulate any protocol with an Ethertype (not just 
> Ethernet frames), by adding a Protocol Type field.  This is certainly useful, 
> and has already been covered in draft-quinn-vxlan-gpe as a backward 
> compatible extension to VXLAN by using a P bit flag to signal its presence.  
> The field is even at the same offset as draft-quinn-vxlan-gpe, but is missing 
> the P bit for backwards compatibility.
> 
> 2) The addition of an OAM bit to signal that the packet should be processed 
> by the tunnel endpoint and not forwarded to a tenant.  This also seems 
> useful, and seems identical in usage to the (IMO, poorly named) "Router 
> Alert" bit extension to VXLAN covered in (the currently expired) 
> draft-singh-nvo3-vxlan-router-alert.
> 
> 3) Last, but not least is the addition of a variable length options field, 
> which the draft suggests is used to carry metadata along with the payload.  
> As mentioned by some others, IMO, the encapsulation transport header is not 
> the right place to define and carry metadata.  Architecturally, metadata 
> should be defined independent of transport so it can be carried inside of 
> whatever transport is desired (e.g. VXLAN, NVGRE, MPLSoGRE, L2TPV3 etc).  One 
> example of an effort to do this is in the Network Service Header draft 
> (draft-quinn-sfc-nsh) being discussed in the SFC WG.  I am guessing that 
> since the Geneve options field is optional, that the metadata it contains is 
> not related to basic network connectivity, but more to providing higher level 
> network services (aka Service Functions).  The Network Service Header 
> contains two separate parts, the service path (used to guide the packets 
> through the service chain) and context (metadata).  I can certainly see the 
> context part of NSH being 
 used to carry metadata even if the service chain is null (all services are 
fully distributed to the tunnel endpoints).
> 
> In short, I don't see anything in Geneve that cannot be accomplished by using 
> the backward compatible extensions to VXLAN proposed in draft-quinn-vxlan-gpe 
> and draft-singh-nvo3-vxlan-router-alert, combined with the addition of NSH.
> 
> When the current NVO3 WG charter was being written, there seemed to be 
> consensus that we have no shortage of encapsulation options, but what was 
> lacking was a standard control plane.  The Geneve draft seems to turn that on 
> its head by saying "There is a clear advantage in settling on a data format: 
> most of the protocols are only superficially different and there is little 
> advantage in duplicating effort.  However, the same cannot be said of control 
> planes, which are diverse in very fundamental ways.  The case for 
> standardization is also less clear given the wide variety in requirements, 
> goals, and deployment scenarios.".  I agree with the first part of this, so 
> why define a completely new, non-backward compatible encapsulation?  I 
> disagree with the second part, since this is clearly the goal of the NVO3 WG.
> 
> I see that there is an agenda slot to discuss the Geneve draft, but I'm not 
> clear what the goals are of the authors within the IETF since the draft name 
> does not target it to any particular WG, and it is currently marked as 
> "Informational".  I would suggest that the authors consider extending 
> currently implemented encapsulations rather than starting from scratch, e.g. 
> by moving a few bits around in the first word of the Geneve header, it could 
> be made backward compatible with VXLAN.
> 
> Thanks, Larry
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