Agree 100%.

And if such systems already exist, and just a new encapsulation is added to 
support NVO3, what makes you think the below bullet will be added to the 
implementation?

A question for the working group and not Anoop.

Dino

On Jun 3, 2014, at 9:19 AM, Anoop Ghanwani <[email protected]> wrote:

> >>>
>           o Providing NVE segmentation and reassembly support in overlay
>             operations that avoids IP fragmentation caused by additional 
> headers.
> >>>
> 
> It may be worth pointing out that this option significantly complicates the 
> design of hardware NVEs because they need to buffer packets and have 
> reassembly logic (timeouts, etc.) to in order to perform the reassembly.
> 
> Anoop
> 
> 
> On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 2:06 PM, Black, David <[email protected]> wrote:
> Trying again, here's a second attempt at proposing elaboration text
> for the path MTU material in section 3.5 of the dataplane requirements
> draft.
> 
> This is getting longer because the original text mixed dataplane
> techniques with Tenant System techniques.  See below the text for a
> list of requirements changes that have resulted.
> 
> There is enough change in this new text that I'd suggest allowing
> time for list discussion before adding the text to the draft - there
> are inevitably things that are unclear (or even wrong) in the new text.
> 
> OLD
>        The interface MTU as seen by a Tenant System SHOULD be adjusted such
>        that no fragmentation is needed. This can be achieved by
>        configuration or be discovered dynamically.
> 
>        Either of the following options MUST be supported:
> 
>           o Classical ICMP-based MTU Path Discovery [RFC1191] [RFC1981] or
>             Extended MTU Path Discovery techniques such as defined in
>             [RFC4821]
> 
>           o Segmentation and reassembly support from the overlay layer
>             operations without relying on the Tenant Systems to know about
>             the end-to-end MTU
> 
>           o The underlay network MAY be designed in such a way that the MTU
>             can accommodate the extra tunnel overhead.
> NEW
>        In an nvo3 environment, adding overlay and tunnel headers to a packet
>        may cause underlay network IP fragmentation when the resulting
>        packet size exceeds a link MTU size.  The value of the interface MTU
>        exposed to Tenant Systems SHOULD be small enough to avoid this effect.
>        This may be accomplished by a number of means, including:
> 
>           o Setting the exposed interface MTU (e.g., to be less than
>             the actual link MTU).  The value to use may be statically
>             configured or discovered dynamically.
> 
>           o Providing NVE segmentation and reassembly support in overlay
>             operations that avoids IP fragmentation caused by additional 
> headers.
> 
>           o Designing the underlay network to have an MTU that accommodates
>             the additional header overhead caused by encapsulation.
> 
>        Independent of whether the interface MTU value is small enough to avoid
>        IP fragmentation caused by encapsulation, Tenant Systems SHOULD use
>        path MTU discovery to determine a transmission MTU size that avoids
>        IP fragmentation end-to-end.  Two techniques for this are Classical
>        ICMP-based MTU Path Discovery [RFC1191] [RFC1981], and Extended MTU 
> Path
>        Discovery as defined in [RFC4821].  Both techniques are based on the
>        use of probe packets.
> 
>        Classical MTU Path Discovery requires ICMP responses to indicate
>        that fragmentation is required; ingress NVEs SHOULD generate these
>        responses to Tenant Systems when the DF bit is set in the IP header
>        of the packet received at NVE ingress and the encapsulated packet
>        size would exceed the MTU of the underlay network.  NVE generation of
>        such responses avoids complications in dealing with the corresponding
>        ICMP responses from the underlay network.
> 
>        Extended MTU Path Discovery requires detection of probe packet loss
>        at the receiver and means to communicate that loss to the sender;
>        e.g., the loss detection and retransmission request functionality
>        in transport protocols such as TCP and SCTP.
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> 
> There are several requirements changes in the above text:
> 
> a) The "MUST" for IP fragmentation avoidance is gone, as I don't think this
>    can reasonably be imposed on all Tenant Systems that may use nvo3, and
>    I would expect strong objections to a "MUST" on all dataplanes to avoid
>    IP fragmentation ... but please, do surprise me about the latter ;-).
> 
> b) In order to avoid a dataplane "MUST", the list of ways in which the
>    dataplane can avoid IP fragmentation is now a list of examples.
> 
> c) Tenant System usage of path MTU discovery is a "SHOULD".  A "MUST" will
>    not work here, IMHO, because we do not have complete control over
>    Tenant System networking stacks.
> 
> d) I added a "SHOULD" requirement that ingress NVEs generate ICMP "too big"
>    responses when the DF bit is set in the inbound packet and the underlay
>    network would try to fragment the encapsulated packet.  Figuring out
>    how an NVE would convert an underlay ICMP response to an overlay
>    response for a Tenant System makes my head hurt.
> 
> Thanks,
> --David
> ----------------------------------------------------
> David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer
> EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA  01748
> +1 (508) 293-7953             FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786
> [email protected]        Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
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