Hi Carlos,
you've missed a couple other protocols where OOAM Header may be used - GUE
and VxLAN-GPE as mentioned in the Introduction.

Regards,
Greg


On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 3:51 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) <
[email protected]> wrote:

> Dear Greg,
>
>
>
> One follow-up request, based on one of your comments:
>
> GIM>> GRE is not in scope of this proposal. As noted in the Introduction,
> OOAM Header aimed at Geneve, SFC NSH and BIER. It may be used in VXLAN-GPE
> and GUE:
>
>
>
> Do you think the draft “*OAM Header for use in Overlay Networks*” should
> be renamed to something like “*OAM Header for use in a rather small and
> very limited number of Overlay Networks*” or “*OAM Header for use in
> Geneve, SFC NSH, and BIER*”? (It is not clear what Geneve, NSH, and BIER
> have in common that scopes them in and scopes others out, but…) Otherwise,
> it is deceiving.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> Carlos.
>
>
>
> *From: *nvo3 <[email protected]> on behalf of Greg Mirsky <
> [email protected]>
> *Date: *Monday, May 14, 2018 at 5:24 PM
> *To: *NVO3 <[email protected]>
> *Subject: *[nvo3] Follow-up the discussion of OOAM Header at NVO3 meeting
> in London
>
>
>
> Dear All,
>
> following the presentation of the OOAM Header we had very good discussion
> in London. Many thanks to all who have asked so many good questions. Below
> please find my answers, follow-up notes in-lined in the minutes from the
> meeting under GIM>> tag:
>
> Frank Brockners: Would help the document if you added the applicability 
> section that said how that particular header would be slotted in with Geneve, 
> GRE, and the likes. What you have now work well for protocols that have a 
> pointer of next header of 8 bits. That would not work for 16 bit protocol 
> pointers.
>
> GIM>> GRE is not in scope of this proposal. As noted in the Introduction, 
> OOAM Header aimed at Geneve, SFC NSH and BIER. It may be used in VXLAN-GPE 
> and GUE:
>
>    New protocols that support overlay networks like VxLAN-GPE
>
>    [I-D.ietf-nvo3-vxlan-gpe], GUE [I-D.ietf-nvo3-gue], Geneve
>
>    [I-D.ietf-nvo3-geneve], BIER [RFC8296], and NSH [RFC8300] support
>
>    multi-protocol payload, e.g.  Ethernet, IPv4/IPv6, and recognize
>
>    Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (OAM) as one of distinct
>
>    types.  That ensures that Overlay OAM (OOAM)packets are sharing fate
>
>    with Overlay data packet traversing the underlay.
>
> GIM>> Regarding use of 16 bits long field for Protocol Type in Geneve. I 
> think that this is valid question that NVO3 WG should discuss not only for 
> OOAM Header but for the Geneve proposal. Benefits of using EtherType rather 
> than new protocol registry like, for example in VxLAN-GPE, are not obvious to 
> me.
>
>  Showing how that fits in a general way would give more appeal for people to 
> care about it.
>
> Greg: Are you suggesting that different encapsulations have different length 
> of the next protocol field?
>
> Frank: It depends where you want to go with this. If you have GRE, next type 
> will be ethertype. I wonder where it does apply, how does that apply, and 
> adding that to the document would be of great help.
>
> Greg: I will look into the document, but our original goal was to use ion new 
> encapsulations like BIER, Geneve, SFC. Whether that is applicable to GRE we 
> need to discuss.
>
> Frank. Having applicability and deployment section would be good.
>
> Greg: In BIER, Geneve, and NSH it looks not different.
>
> Sam: [].
>
> ?/Cisco: Curious to know - this seems to be an inband OAM type. How would 
> this relate to IOAM work in IPPM?
>
> Greg: I would stress that inband behavior of OAM is the function of the 
> encapsulation layer. If it draws only from the encapsulation layer and not 
> from the payload then any type of OAM will be inband. In order to ensure that 
> active OAM is inband with the data flow it puts certain restrictions on how 
> the following decision should be drawn. One of the examples that we have is 
> an example how this type of encapsulation can be used for IOAM. The format of 
> the header is something that we can discuss.
>
> ?/Cisco: Can you explain how the next protocol is supposed to be used? Do you 
> need to look at the first part of the header?
>
> Greg: Yes. If next protocol is 0 it means you have only OAM control packet. 
> If you have nonzero it means that there is something following after the 
> control packet.
>
> ?/Cisco: I will take this offline.
>
> Greg: Next protocol registry is something that we can discuss.
>
> Ilango: The OAM proposal that you have is applicable at different layers, it 
> could be on the overlay layer, it could be on the service layer. Both could 
> coexist, and the document does not have enough applicability information for 
> this case.
>
> GIM>> If this is in reference to, for example, SFC NSH over Geneve, then yes, 
> one can construct a packet with OAM message on each layer. Consider Geneve 
> header, followed by its OAM, i.e. OOAM header and OAM message.  This Geneve 
> OAM message, in turn, is followed by NSH. And the NSH header is followed by 
> SFC OAM, which includes OOAM Header and SFC OAM message. Is this the scenario 
> you consider? It is certainly interesting but, I think, may not necessarily 
> be described in this document. It may be more suitable to be analyzed in SFC 
> OAM document.
>
> Greg: I would personally think that the same packet for the OAM for different 
> layers.
>
> Ilango: Not necessarily. NSH can be transported on multiple different 
> transports. If you go through multiple encapsulations before reaching the 
> service node. OAM as part of the NSH header is independent from OAM in the 
> overlay layer.
>
> Greg: It would be interesting and helpful to get some operational 
> considerations where one packet is OAM for NSH and overlay transport at the 
> same time. How to identify where the fault happened. It is much easier if it 
> is done on the on the different layers.
>
> Ilango: Can you clarify that in the further version of the document?
>
> Greg: This can be applied on both layers but independently.
>
> Parviz: Back to Frank’s question on applicability - you are going to change 
> behavior of SFC nodes? Is it going to impact the behavior of the SF node, or 
> is it transparent?
>
> Greg: If we talk about active OAM, we have multilayer OAM individual document 
> in SFC WG, the scope is SFF.
>
> Parviz: Forwarding behavior?
>
> Greg: Forwarding behavior is based on SFF, not SF.
>
> Parviz: The behavior of the forwarding node is captured?
>
> Greg: The expected behavior - the document introduces echo request and reply, 
> and SFF can reply to the sender out of band as requested.
>
> Sam: Clarification question. Are you going to pursue this in other WGs? Are 
> you going to pursue to get a common solution?
>
> Greg: If the WG in the current work in the header - there is a dependency 
> between OOAM DT and this work in header. If both documents get adopted I will 
> pursue a common solution, if not I will continue with SFC.
>
> GIM>> As was mentioned, in draft-wang-sfc-multi-layer-oam 
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-sfc-multi-layer-oam-06> have proposed 
> use the header for SFC OAM with introduction of SFC Echo Request and Echo 
> Reply.
>
>
>
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