Rob,
And as my tax dollars won't be funding what you do in NYC, as long as you
don't snare any federal funds, I have absolutley no objection to it! I
merely wanted to correct the misunderstanding about broadband being cheaper
elsewhere than in the U.S. It's not. Don't forget, it's capitalism that
made this nation the greatest in the world, and in fact it's capitalism that
makes all these neat wireless gadgets that we love so, possible! I doubt
that even our socialist European neighbors, or the Asians who produce most
of the wireless gear, would make it at all if there were not big money in
it.
WRT my statement that taxation is theft, if I told you to give me
several thousand dollars or I would come and get you, you would probably
laugh it off, even if I promised to use the money for "a good purpose".
However, once you heard that I had done just that to hundreds or thousands
of people, that those people are now in prison because they would not give
me their money, that they are going to STAY in prison, and that the highest
legal authority in the land had confirmed that it's ok for me to do that, I
bet you would give me some money the next time I asked. You may feel it's
all ok, but if I were in your shoes I would feel I've been robbed. Yes,
taxation is theft. When someone works hard to become a success, it's immoral
to take their money by threat of force to give it to someone who didn't earn
it. We've gotten way off track in the last hundred years and are using
forced wealth redistribution to fill society's needs that have always been
served by charity and church.
Anyway we're getting off topic. I only wanted to correct the
misunderstanding that broadband is cheaper elsewhere than in the U.S. and
since then I've only responded to related points made by others. I really
want to stay on topic if possible.
Jim
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Rob Kelley
> Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 1:50 PM
> To: 'nycwireless'
> Subject: RE: [nycwireless] Municipal Broadband - Must read!
>
>
> Jim:
>
> Maybe in airpower's home of Lansdowne, PA, people think
> "taxation is theft" (though I doubt it).
>
> Here in NYC, as in NYCwireless, people put up with some of
> the highest income tax rates in the country. Why? Because
> we believe in the city, the urban environment, and communal
> services. Tax-ranting is really out of place.
>
> If you want low taxes, try Alaska. If we want to have
> community access in NYC, we need to focus on the real value
> it can provide as a communal service and figure out how to
> make it happen.
>
> Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Jim Henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Lars,
> > I'm OK with street lights and quite a bit more, but
> you've got to
> > draw the line somewhere. I certainly don't want my tax
> dollars paying
> > for soeone
> > else's water, electricity, gas, medicine, education,
> healthcare, etc.
> > As to
> > the cost of your broadband connection, I'd be willing to
> bet you are
> > not
> > counting the taxes you and your fellow subjects pay for that
> > municipal fiber
> > network as part of that $40/month. Beyond that, I'd also bet you
> > pay a
> > much larger percentage of your income in taxes than I, though mine
> > are
> > already far too high. Taxation is theft and thus immoral.
> >
> > Jim
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> > > Of Lars Aronsson
> > > Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 7:46 AM
> > > To: 'nycwireless'
> > > Subject: RE: [nycwireless] Municipal Broadband - Must read!
> > >
> > >
> > > Jim Henry wrote:
> > >
> > > > Just curious, does anyone know if in these countries where
> > > > broadband is cheaper and more prevalent than the U.S., is it
> > > > really cheaper or is it subsidized by the government? I
> honestly
> > > > don't know the answer. I would like it to be cheaper here also
> > > > and more widespread, but not at the expense of free enterprise.
> > > > If it takes socialism to accomplish this, I don't want it.
> > >
> > > I heard that socialism has gone away now that "cialis" is caught
> > > in the spam filters. Seriously, though, I have yet to see street
> > > lights operated on a pay-per-view commercial basis.
> Somebody paid
> > > once-and-for-all to pave and light the streets, and it could be
> > > tax money. Does that make it socialism?
> > >
> > > In Sweden I pay 320 SEK/mo ($40) for 10 Mbit/s. This is possible
> > > because I live in a coop apartment building, where every
> apartment
> > > is wired by an ISP, and the in-house switched LAN is connected to
> > > a municipal fiber in the basement. This ISP
> (www.bredband.com) was
> > > founded with venture capital during the dotcom boom and got a
> > > contract with the largest national association of apartment coops
> > > (www.hsb.se). Through this contract, apartment coops that are
> > > members have a very streamlined procedure for signing up to get
> > > their apartment buildings wired.
> > >
> > > This spring, the ISP is introducing a reduced price 2 Mbit/s
> > > offering (still over CAT-5 twisted pair ethernet, so I
> guess it is
> > > really 10 Mbit/s but bandwidth limited) and at the same time my
> > > line is upgraded to 100 Mbit/s at unchanged price.
> > >
> > > As far as I know, there is no direct government subsidy, but a lot
> > > of factors work together:
> > >
> > > * Compared to the U.S., more people here live in apartments.
> > > People living in private homes cannot get broadband as cheap,
> > > simply because wiring a dozen apartments in one building is a
> > > lot cheaper than wiring a dozen private homes.
> > >
> > > * Coops is a very common form of apartment ownership in Sweden
> > > since the 1930s, and the national associations work pretty
> > > well. The nationwide template contract made it easier for a
> > > lot of small coops to sign up, who don't have the technical
> > > insights to do their own negotiations.
> > >
> > > * The dotcom boom provided the venture capital for this
> > > broadband-only ISP. You could call this "subsidized by stupid
> > > investors". I guess the stock price has fallen, but at least
> > > this company is still around.
> > >
> > > * The old national telco is not involved at all in this solution.
> > >
> > > * The ISP rents dark fiber from the municipal utility between my
> > > building and the ISP's facility in this town. The municipal
> > > water, sewer, electricity, and heating utility is
> operated as a
> > > whole-owned corporation (www.tekniskaverken.se) and I don't
> > > know exactly how they have financed the build-out of the
> > > municipal fiber network.
> > >
> > > I guess most of these conditions could also apply to New York
> > > City, more than to rural or suburban America.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Lars Aronsson ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
> > > Aronsson Datateknik - http://aronsson.se
> > > --
> > > NYCwireless - http://www.nycwireless.net/
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > > Version: 7.1.362 / Virus Database: 267.14.14/222 - Release
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> > >
> > >
> >
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>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________
> Yahoo! DSL - Something to write home about.
> Just $16.99/mo. or less.
> dsl.yahoo.com
>
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