Matt raised a very legitimate point about potential variability in mortality risks among sites, and he did so in a non-confrontational manner, not deserving of a sarcastic response.
Irony is a twin-edged sword, however, and it often rings oddly in a discussion like this. Seriously, who wouldn't love to see a thorough study made of the bird-life at the proposed site near Batavia? The question of whether to place a particular for-profit industrial installation in a particular place is incredibly complex, and I doubt that Matthew meant to imply that the papers he cited constitute a carte blanche for the proposed Batavia project. The density and species composition of birds varies not only among sites, but even at a particular site, where they can vary tremendously from season to season and from year to year (as students of migration can attest, via many, many scientific studies). I was reminded of this quite forcefully earlier this spring as I watched literally thousands of Neotropical migrant landbirds struggle ashore at Fire Island, Long Island, in a classic spring fallout event. These birds passed through an airspace that has been debated as a wind farm site. The occurrence of these fallout events is a certainty over appropriate time-scales, but many regional wildlife biologists and active birders have never witnessed even one in their lives. These days you can't miss the interviews with scholars who study the great difficulty that cost-benefit analyses suffer in correctly evaluating the risks arising from these low probability/high magnitude events. Shai Mitra Bay Shore ________________________________________ From: bounce-6024671-3714...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-6024671-3714...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Voisine, Matthew NAN02 [matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil] Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 3:38 PM To: grosb...@clarityconnect.com; nysbirds-l@cornell.edu; geneseebird...@geneseo.edu Subject: RE: [nysbirds-l] Blockbusting/fixed link I would love to see the citation that differ from the citations that I sent earlier. Surveys done scientifically cost $$$$$. No way around it. $100,000 for research is nothing. Why do "comments like, "the numbers of birds killed at turbines are in the single digits per year per turbine", my suspicions get greater!!" get your suspicions greater? I backed it up with science. I do not see any science stating otherwise. Matthew Voisine Wildlife Biologist U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Planning - Environmental Analysis Branch 26 Federal Plaza - Rm 2151 New York, New York 10278-0090 Voice: 917.790.8718 Fax: 212.264.0961 -----Original Message----- From: bounce-6024478-8614...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-6024478-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of grosb...@clarityconnect.com Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 12:59 PM To: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu; geneseebird...@geneseo.edu Subject: RE: [nysbirds-l] Blockbusting/fixed link Hello all, I fully agree that wind power can help us move towards a more sustainable form of energy! However, there is a right and wrong place to do this. I'm not necessarily saying that this project should not happen, but given its close proximity to a fabulous upstate National Wildlife Refuge, I do not think that two 3 minute point count surveys at 20 points is sufficient! Do we need a $100,000 survey to make a determination, no, but given how sneakily things can sometimes be done in this country, I do think doing a thorough survey is warranted! When I see comments like, "the numbers of birds killed at turbines are in the single digits per year per turbine", my suspicions get greater!! This stat all depends on the _where_, especially since I strongly believe inappropriately placed turbines can kill many more than a handful of birds! Others that more closely work on this issue can certainly speak with greater scope and surely can provide many papers that cite the mortality that can sometimes happen at certain turbines. cheers, Matt Original Message: ----------------- From: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil Date: Wed, 9 Jun 2010 11:27:00 -0400 To: tl...@cornell.edu, nysbirds-l@cornell.edu Subject: RE: [nysbirds-l] Blockbusting/fixed link Link for the one that does not work http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~content=a909088697&db=all Matthew Voisine Wildlife Biologist U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Planning - Environmental Analysis Branch 26 Federal Plaza - Rm 2151 New York, New York 10278-0090 Voice: 917.790.8718 Fax: 212.264.0961 From: tara.schnei...@gmail.com [mailto:tara.schnei...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Tara Schneider Sent: Wednesday, June 09, 2010 11:19 AM To: Voisine, Matthew NAN02 Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Blockbusting Thanks for sending your feedback to the whole list. I agree with you fully. I am interested in reading the articles you sent - thank you very much for taking the time to post those links. Just wanted to let you know that one of the links does not work: http://pdfserve.informaworld.com/610790__909088697.pdf Thanks again! Tara Tara Schneider Conservation Biologist Town of Hempstead Department of Conservation & Waterways Lido Blvd., P.O. Box 180 Point Lookout, NY 11569 Ph: 516.897.4109 Fx: 516.431.0088 tl...@cornell.edu www.tohcleanenergyproject.org/ On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Voisine, Matthew NAN02 <matthew.vois...@usace.army.mil> wrote: Hi all I had initially thought of replying just to Bill but decided to reply to all. I have NO vested interest in wind power or birds for that matter. I do however believe that wind power presents an excellent opportunity to move towards a more sustainable form of energy, and I have been researching avian behavior and birding for 15 years. Wind turbines kill a minute number of birds annually. The numbers are in the single digits per year per turbine. Compare those numbers to domestic cats, buildings, and towers, and you will see that concerning yourself with wind turbine caused avian mortality is insignificant. As well as the fact that to build a building, radio, television, or cellular tower, or own a cat, you do not need to complete a $100,000's study of how they will affect birds. Just some food for thought. Below are just a few links to some peer-reviewed journal articles concerning avian interaction with wind turbines. http://www.outlierproductions.com/Resources/Barrios%20bird%20wind.pdf http://www.jstor.org/stable/3082982 http://www.jstor.org/stable/3784243 http://pdfserve.informaworld.com/610790__909088697.pdf Avian interactions with television towers, or buildings http://www.jstor.org/stable/4514603 http://www.birdsandbuildings.org/docs/WinStrikeMortalityTJO.pdf http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:SfGsZ-2oBKoJ:scholar.google.com/+avian + mortality+building+strike&hl=en&as_sdt=20000000000 <http://74.125.155.132/scholar?q=cache:SfGsZ-2oBKoJ:scholar.google.com/+avia n +%0Amortality+building+strike&hl=en&as_sdt=20000000000> Predation of birds by domestic cats http://up.picr.de/2379461.pdf http://md1.csa.com/partners/viewrecord.php?requester=gs&collection=ENV&recid = 3596640&q=predation+of+birds+by+domestic+cat&uid=1090184&setcookie=yes <http://md1.csa.com/partners/viewrecord.php?requester=gs&collection=ENV&reci d =%0A3596640&q=predation+of+birds+by+domestic+cat&uid=1090184&setcookie=yes> Matthew Voisine Wildlife Biologist U.S. Army Corps of Engineers Planning - Environmental Analysis Branch 26 Federal Plaza - Rm 2151 New York, New York 10278-0090 Voice: 917.790.8718 Fax: 212.264.0961 -----Original Message----- From: bounce-6022171-8614...@list.cornell.edu [mailto:bounce-6022171-8614...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of Bill Evans Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 6:24 PM To: nysbirds-l@cornell.edu; cayugabirds Subject: [nysbirds-l] Blockbusting Greetings birders, In the lull between NY breeding bird atlases, I thought some birders out there might be interested in some mid-season blockbusting. In this case, it's not USGS blocks but the locale of a proposed wind energy project in western NY. The proposed Alabama Ledge wind farm, about 5 miles northwest of Batavia, NY would consist of up to 52 wind turbines and border the southern edges of the Iroqouis National Wildlife Refuge and the Oak Orchard Wildlife Management Area. The Town of Alabama, NY is the lead agency and is currently weighing the proposal and its draft environmental impact statement. The latter included a breeding bird study in which the stated goal was: "locating and counting breeding resident birds within the areas proposed for development. The surveys were conducted in the first two weeks of June based on the regional timing recommended for USGS BBS in western New York (USGS 2001)." Toward that end, a consultant hired by the wind project developer carried out two 3 minute point count surveys at 20 points within the wind project area. That is all the breeding bird survey planned to be conducted for this wind project and it provides the formal record for consideration of breeding birds that might be potentially impacted by the project. To me that seems like a grossly inadequate level of assessment, especially so for a wind project proposed to be built in such close proximity to some of our precious wildlife refuges. For any wind project in New York (and beyond) it seems we should have a detailed record of what was there prior to the wind project's construction. I'm planning on heading over to the locality of the Alabama Ledge wind project this Sunday to bird along the roadsides within the proposed wind project area. I'd welcome coordinating with any similarly interested birders this Sunday and collating sightings from birders visiting the location over the next month. The goal would be to send the Town of Alabama, NYDEC and USFWS a list of additional breeding species within the proposed wind project development, that were not detected in the developer's survey, which might be impacted by the wind project. A map of the project area along with the species detected by the developer's breeding bird study can be found at the following link: http://www.horizonwindfarms.com/northeast-region/documents/under-dev/alabama - ledge/deis/Appendix%20F2%20Avian%20and%20Bat%20Studies.pdf <http://www.horizonwindfarms.com/northeast-region/documents/under-dev/alabam a -%0Aledge/deis/Appendix%20F2%20Avian%20and%20Bat%20Studies.pdf> Please email me offlist if you are interested in participating in this "blockbusting" effort. Bill Evans -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html 3) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html 3) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html 3) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://link.mail2web.com/mail2web -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html 3) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html 3) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ -- Think green before you print this email. -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html 3) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
