I don’t think Chris T-H needs to weigh in on this as it is a polite 
conversation of an issue that we all know about.
Many of us have opinions that will not be changed. That is everyones right.

I have simply this one thing to say:
I know many out there wish to eliminate the Swans for what they believe are 
scientific reasons. 
I think the Mute Swan, now that they have been here for over a century, have as 
much a right to live as any immigrant does today.
Their numbers and the damage they do is really negligible compared to other 

Are not Swans now to be considered naturalized and a beauty for all to behold? 
I think they need this protection.

> On Dec 4, 2017, at 6:21 PM, Michael Cooper <mike5...@icloud.com> wrote:
> Well said Tim, but I think I hear the footsteps of 
> Chris T-H on the way, so I’m going to mention a bird in this post and “duck” 
> out of the way of the ban hammer!
> Mike Cooper
> Ridge LI NY
> Sent from my iPhone
> On Dec 4, 2017, at 6:03 PM, Tim Dunn <timd...@optonline.net 
> <mailto:timd...@optonline.net>> wrote:
>> Fred and any others interested, 
>> Two mute swans by you is no problem. Up to 65 can be seen on any given day 
>> on Argyle Lake in Babylon.  It is a pond that is less than 1/4 mile in 
>> circumference.  All other breeding waterfowl here have been eradicated by 
>> these swans. Some migrant waterfowl use the pond but less than in the past. 
>> Few dabbling ducks use it as swans have eaten all vegetation on the bottom 
>> of the pond to as far as their long necks can reach. 
>> Geese come and go in migration here, but the mute swans are a constant.  So 
>> I would expect that the reason that DEC wants to control them is that they 
>> are an invasive species that is destroying the local ecosystem and driving 
>> out native species. Maybe not happening by you, but definitely happening 
>> here in western Suffolk. 
>> Non-birders are aware of this issue because it appeared in the newspapers 
>> when the DEC came out and said they would start removing the swans. That 
>> typically means shooting, trapping, poisoning, etc. Hardly anyone likes the 
>> idea of culling these birds through cruel and inhumane ways (including me), 
>> so the subject comes up for a debate that has reached beyond birders and 
>> wildlife people from time to time.  My understanding is that egg oiling and 
>> similar tactics are being used, or at least are up for discussion, to 
>> control the population. 
>> Since they are an invasive and destructive species, any connection that an 
>> observer feels to wildlife by viewing feral mute swans is based entirely on 
>> a lack of understanding of the natural world around them. You might have 
>> done more for the guy you ran into today if you had told him that if it 
>> weren’t for those swans, he might be seeing ten different species of 
>> waterfowl that they have driven away.  Beauty is obviously in the eye of the 
>> beholder, but I’d prefer green-wing teal and pintails to those swans. 
>> (And sociologically speaking, to me those swans represent the escaped stock 
>> of early successful Americans anxious to imitate the “Lords of the Manor” in 
>> Europe, who are the same folks that my Irish ancestors fled to America to 
>> get away from.) 
>> While stepping around goose droppings and occasionally having to hit the 
>> brakes to allow a goose flock to cross the street is an inconvenience, I 
>> don’t think it has nearly the adverse effect on the local environment that 
>> the swans have had in my part of Long Island. 
>> Thanks,
>> Tim Dunn
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> On Dec 4, 2017, at 4:58 PM, Frederick Kedenburg <kedenb...@optonline.net 
>> <mailto:kedenb...@optonline.net>> wrote:
>>> Although yes, I do know this issue was posted locally on the NF, yet it 
>>> still has many repercussions to birders throughout NYS therefore I am 
>>> posting.
>>> If you wish to eradicate Mute Swan I am sorry.
>>> rk
>>> North Fork LI NY: I went looking for the reported Snowy at the Mattituck 
>>> Inlet Breakwater today but although I looked along the Beach, east & west 
>>> and patrolled the DEC conservation and boat ramp area I could not find it. 
>>> I’ll try again as once the species shows up it can be persistent. The 
>>> predominant waterfowl there today was Long-tailed Duck. It was good to hear 
>>> their call once again this season.
>>> After some coffee and a late breakfast in Mattituck I went to Laurel Lake.
>>> There were plentiful numbers of Ring-necked Duck, Ruddy Duck and American 
>>> Coot. Also seen were one Great Blue Heron, one Pied Billed Grebe and a 
>>> Gadwall.
>>> As an aside:
>>> There were two Mute Swan in the Laurel Lake compared to hundreds of Canada 
>>> Geese there today.
>>> Why does the NYS-DEC seem so preoccupied with extirpating all the Mute Swan 
>>> and is doing next to nothing in addressing the vast numbers of Canada Geese 
>>> in NYS. The geese cause so much damage to wetlands and to water quality due 
>>> to the hugh amount of poop they produce. Loading nitrogen into our bays and 
>>> wetlands is only part of the problem. Maneuvering about many parking lots 
>>> and commercial businesses with grass without encountering poop is 
>>> problematic.
>>> I understand from DEC records that the Mute Swan population in NYS is 
>>> somewhere between 2800 and 3500. Please correct me if I am wrong.
>>> As I was looking through my scope this morning at Laurel Lake a fellow came 
>>> along walking his dog and asked me what I was looking at. I gave him a 
>>> brief description of the species there and he said to me. “Why do they want 
>>> to kill all the swans? He continued to say “I love the Swans, they are so 
>>> beautiful and my kids love to see them as well”. I wondered how an average 
>>> person had come to know about this issue.
>>> My point here is that I believe the Mute Swan, although yes it is an 
>>> ‘invasive species’, does more good than harm as it helps connect people 
>>> with a world around them they did not know before. The Swans in effect 
>>> connect people to nature and help create a culture of conservation that 
>>> helps us all.
>>> As for Canada Geese I have nothing against them; however, to put thing into 
>>> perspective when I do the DEC Winter Waterfowl Census in January I 
>>> frequently find about 3,000 Canada Geese in the fields along Oregon Road 
>>> Mattituck NY alone. Imagine how many statewide.
>>> In my opinion the DEC needs to get their priorities in the correct order 
>>> and concern themselves with a gradual reduction in the population of Canada 
>>> Geese. Whether it be through addling of eggs or a more lenient view when it 
>>> comes to hunting and or donation of the take to food banks something must 
>>> be done.
>>> rk
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