Hey,
Glynn Foster wrote:
> Hey,
>
> Given the relative timing of the current set of events, I've done a quick turn
> around between the meeting and getting the minutes out - these have had
> agreement from 3 of the OGB members (including myself), and may be subject to
> change in the future.
The final minutes of this meeting are included below. The changes from the
previously published minutes are the addition of Ben to the attendees list, his
comments of what Joyent were doing to accurately reflect what was said in the
meeting, and some minor spelling mistakes.
Glynn
==
OGB Meeting Minutes 7th November 2008
OGB Members: Carlson, Coopersmith, Dik (:37), Foster, Lau, Teer, Wesolowski
Others: John Plocher, John Beck, Ian Murdock, Bill Franklin, Al Hopper,
Sara Dornsife, Shawn Walker, Simon Phipps, Ben Rockwood
Lau clarified whether non-OGB members could have a discussion. Wesolowski
commented that it would be reasonable to open it up to the floor for
questions or discussion at certain stages during the call. All agreed.
Teer asked if the agenda was finalized. Plocher commented that Bill
Sommerfeld requested by email that his proposal be taken out of the agenda
until it was finalized.
1) Virtual Client Community Proposal
All agreed that there was no objections on the mailing list while this
community was proposed.
The board unanimously agreed on the motion that the board would
take votes by roll call of the OGB members.
The board unanimously agreed the proposal for initiation of the
Virtual Client Community Group.
ACTION: Foster will get in touch with Ray Strong who originally proposed
and make sure he has everything he needs to make this happen.
2) Trademark Usage & Distribution Nomenclature
Wesolowski issued a motion to approve the 2007/004 draft sent to ogb-discuss.
Lau asked whether it would be sensible to have more strict time-lines
(6-8 weeks) for the trademark guidelines discussion. Foster commented
he would like to see some responsible discussion before this draft
is voted on, and make sure all the responsible parties have been involved
in this. Teer asked if that document is available. Coopersmith mentioned
that this is currently being worked upon in the genunix wiki. Teer thinks
that we should at least issue a statement of leadership for the community.
Lau felt it would be more constructive if we have a time-line on this,
otherwise it might set an open ended discussion. Keith wants to focus on
the very specific question being proposed, rather than getting side-tracked
on the specifics of execution.
Carlson asked for additional discussion for what the effects of this draft
would likely to be. Wesolowski commented that it would be appropriate to
call for comments from the floor -
Al Hopper
Would like to see the OGB take a leadership position, and pass the
proposal today. Doesn't see the need for delay, and would like to see
ownership of the brand, and assert themselves as a body with major
interest in the trademark.
Ian Murdock
Would like to acknowledge that it wasn't socialized with the community
like it should have had. Wanted to point out about how the community
moves forward, and enabling other people to use the trademark. Today we
are in a position of doing this by virtue of having an artifact. From
Sun's point of view, a necessary part of having that discussion is
understanding what OpenSolaris means.
John Plocher
Speaking as one of the leaders of the trademark branding discussion.
Can appreciate the need for a time-frame with closure, but not sure
that the motion on the table needs to be that tightly tied to this.
Shawn Walker
Would like to support the OGB making a substantial statement as elected
representatives of the community. Values Sun as an active involvement,
and appreciates the fact that they have ownership of the trademark.
Ben Rockwood
Would ask acknowledgment of the members of the OGB when deciding, that
Joyent is currently selling "OpenSolaris" solutions based on Solaris
Express - there could be some confusion over Indiana. Would like to
be clarified with the motion set forward - will there be a statement
or some expected action? Coopersmith: The only actions that is
required is that someone delivered that request from the OGB. The OGB
have no other powers to do anything else.
John Plocher
Concerned that your delivery to 'Sun' is unclear. Who are you expecting
to deliver this to, and what sort of actions are you expecting them to
take? Would like to hear from Franklin or Murdock. Wesolowski: specific
questions doesn't have to deal with delivery, and some additional resolution
would be appropriate. Lau: believes the actions would be split over Murdock
and Franklin.
William Franklin
Speaking for Sun, as OpenSolaris representative. Realizes the board is having
a discussion over the board position statement. I think that Sun's position
is that Sun recognizes that it could have handled the branding and trademark
discussion better. As a strong member of the community, and significant
financial contributor of the community, would like to see proactive
discussion around trademark guidelines. Seems like discussion here is the
reaction to that breakdown. Believes a discussion about what should be on the
front page as part of the Advocacy CG. Would like to see the Project Indiana
being used for a series of technical conversations around the artifact. Would
very much like to see the cross posting reduced. Sun would like to see the
OpenSolaris community flourish and grow, would like to see a mutually agreed
upon branding and trademark policy, that allows the community a fair use and
move forward towards a space of reconciliation. Recognizes that there is a
lot of people (both community and Sun) that are new to the community. Need
to focus on looking forward to reconcile to the greater good, rather than
focus on the failures of certain steps. Would appeal for a vote of moderation
in all of this discussion.
Wesolowski moved for amendments to the current discussion -
To 2nd paragraph -
"We share Sun's commitment to *the timely* adoption and execution of a
*fair and* flexible policy governing use of the OpenSolaris trademark once
consensus has been achieved on that policy's desired terms"
Additions to 3rd paragraph -
"We also note that the OGB, the OpenSolaris community, and Sun share many
common goals and values. We feel believe there is ample opportunity for
constructive engagement among all parties in the future."
Franklin requested that he would like this written down, with Foster
suggesting to send the text to ogb-discuss for those not able to attend to
see the drafts.
Wesolowski offered another motion for modification -
"Resolved, that the OGB make certain public statements upon request
concerning Project Indiana and distribution nomenclature, and that these
statements be mailed to ogb-discuss and be made suitable for broader
dissemination".
Murdock asked whether the last paragraph could be removed, feeling that it
hindered constructive progress being made. Lau commented that he thought the
drafted needed some level of action, rather than just a statement. Teer
thinks the initial problem is what is addressed in that 3rd paragraph. Foster
commented on how it was going to impact our current community, Sun's current
participation in that community, and how is it going to influence the
community that we are trying to grow.
Plocher commented that much of the acceptance evaluation about Project
Indiana has not been done eg. ARC, and asked if the use of 'an
OpenSolaris...' could be used instead. Franklin commented that the use of
'require' was too strong a wording, but was curious to the board's position
on the use of 'an'.
Wesolowski believes that 'requires' could well be replaced with 'we ask that
Sun and the Indiana project team discontinue...'. He commented that 'an
OpenSolaris Developer Preview' still had implications that there was going to
be additional ones, and believed that the use of 'an OpenSolaris distribution
preview' would be a better choice. Lau commented that it shouldn't single out
the Project Indiana team, given there were more references to the naming
outside their control. Walker commented that while you didn't want to imply
that a community endorses one distribution over the other, you equally didn't
want to imply that they don't.
Wesolowski proposed the motion to remove the previous revisions, and offer a
complete amended text, that he believed could be sent out soon after the
meeting.
Franklin commented that removing the focus from Project Indiana, but not
removing the focus from Sun was likely to be a grey area, since Sun was a
member of the community. Franklin asked if other distributions were using
the name in similar ways. Coopersmith commented that Sun hasn't told the
Project Indiana team to stop using the trademark, where other distributions
have not also been able to.
Murdock commented that the attempt was made to give additional rights to the
community, and that it had been socialized internally with approval. He
commented that Project Indiana was not necessarily that thing, but a good
starting point for discussion. Lau replied that he appreciated the gesture,
but felt it was a bit presumptuous to claim the name before the trademark
guidelines were complete.
Foster asked whether this was all 2 years too late, with various people in
the mailing lists, press or IRC asking how they can download and install
OpenSolaris, and this was a real issue in the community. Hopper replied that
he thought the name change from Project Indiana to OpenSolaris was a mistake
in the first place, since all the press hype was around Project Indiana, and
changing it before the developer preview meant that it had to start from
scratch.
Wesolowski proposed a motion for an amendment to the text. Keith commented
that while he had written several of the drafts, it wasn't his own personal
position, but a position for the entire board on behalf of the community.
Franklin commented that most people would be reading it rather than hearing
it, and believed it would be good to upload somewhere. Wesolowski agreed that
it would be worth hearing feedback, and was agreeable to scheduling an
emergency meeting tomorrow to further discuss the feedback. Franklin asked if
there was a desire to hear Sun's feedback on the draft, and suggested that he
could get that by Friday 12PT.
ACTION: Wesolowski to send the final draft to ogb-discuss.
ACTION: OGB members to collectively ratify the final draft proposal.
ACTION: Franklin to send final draft internally within Sun management and get
a reply.
OGB members agreed to adjourn until Friday 12PT to discuss this agenda item,
and postpone the discussion of other agenda items until the regular meeting
next week.
