Indeed, Twilight: 2000 was definitely using a system they called "the D20 system". I happen to have the document which introduced that to Twilight: 2k and Merc: 2k lying right here beside me. There are numerous references to "the D20 system". Whether or not the lower-case vs. capital-case d matters or not is a legal point, but I can say that when I heard d20 system prior to D&D 3E, I always thought of GDW's system.
I always did like TW:2k, but that's a little off-topic ;-). -Erwos On 2002.02.21 15:59 Rogers Cadenhead wrote: > On Thu, 21 Feb 2002 11:51:09 -0800, Ryan S. Dancey wrote: > >And being "generically used" doesn't mean anything, unless the term > >was "generically used" to mean a type of product. > > I have no idea what the USPTO considers to be valid evidence of prior > use, but there are numerous examples where "D20 system" was used > generically prior to WOTC's effort to claim it "D20 System" as a > trademark. > > A cursory Web and Usenet search finds dozens of "d20 system" > references that predate D20/OGL and refer to (a) a rule or set of > rules using a D20, (b) an entire rules system, (c) a rules system > used in Twilight: 2000, or (d) D&D, in declining frequency. > > I've included a long list at the end of this post. If WOTC was just > claiming a trademark on the visual "D20 System" graphic as a mark, I > could understand that. However, if no one else can use the words "D20 > system" or a soundalike such as "Free20" to describe a rules system > or rules within a particular system, it seems like WOTC is > appropriating words that are established in the public domain. > > As a side issue, a current search of EBay turns up 334 items with D20 > as a keyword and only 16 with D20 System. A search on Amazon turns up > 35 items with D20 as a title word and 9 with D20 System. It appears > that the marketplace is using D20 alone to refer to these products > more often than D20 System. > > The list ... > > Excerpts from Web pages found using Google in April 2000: > > "Combat system has been simplified. Basically, its a d20 system now, > instead of d100, with DRMs based on 150+ variables." -- a review of > Babylon 5 Wars by Christopher Weuve > > "Fading Suns uses a d20 system where players attempt to succeed at > various tasks by rolling equal to or less than a predetermined target > number." -- a catalog description from The Game Preserve > > "TimeLords (and its various related systems also by Greg Porter/BTRC, > including the more distant relation, CORPS) basically uses skill > points to buy skills (at a steeply increasing cost -- it's a d20 > system where an average skill of level n costs n^2 points) ..." -- a > Usenet posting by [EMAIL PROTECTED] archived on a Web site > > "Harnmaster is a d100 (percentile) system. Pendragon is a d20 system. > This makes it very easy to convert between them." -- a game > conversion system written by Lydia Leong > > "The new edition of the game is basically just a reprint of the old > GDW material. Some new rules have been incorporated, especially in > character generation. The D20 system included in the original > Empathic Sourcebook and Proto-dimensions Sourcebook Volume 1 replaces > the D10 system in the original rulebook." -- a review of Dark > Conspiracy 2nd Edition by Geoff Skellams > > "Dark Conspiracy was the first role-playing game I ever designed from > the ground up. (As a matter of fact, although the game was published > with the GDW 'house system' from Twilight: 2000 at its core, I'd > originally built it around an experimental d20 system.)" -- game > designer Lester Smith on his home page. > > "I am currently working on a d20 system for STAR FRONTIERS and would > like any suggestions and input for new rules." -- Thomas Fuller in a > 1996 posting to the Star Frontiers mailing list > > "Home Rules. This variant allows Alternity game players to generate > Ordinary, Good, and Amazing results using a simple d20 system." -- > Wizards of the Coast on its own Web site at > http://www.wizards.com/alternity/station.asp > > Excerpts from Usenet postings prior to March 2000: > > "The 2nd ed. DMG magic item chart is so awful it leaves me aghast. > Percentiles work for the distribution of really rare items > sure....they're still be a 1% chance to get that Staff of the Magi, > but the d20 system raises that to 5%!" > > "In developing my own game, I realized that on a twenty-unit > scale (using a d20 system) the differences between a 10 and 11 tend > to get lost in the randomness of the die roll." > > "As far as the arquebus and D&D goes it was with the game in the > beginning when you still used Chainmail's Man to Man rules but was > left out when they whent to the d20 system officially." > > "The system itself is a D20 system we hashed out here (watch out what > happens when you have a bunch of computer programmers helping develop > a probabllity system)." > > "Costikyan's THE PRICE OF FREEDOM had an explicit ruling that rolls > made under non-stressful circumstances get doubled. It was a d20 > system, so anyone with a score of 10 could count on definitely > succeeding if she had time and equipment to make a careful go of it." > > "It works within the confines of a d20 system (i.e. within the > confines of AD&D)." > > "If anyone has been following my threads, I have been bashing TNE and > the GDW D20 system." > > "Many of the problems with T:2000 v2.0 were fixed by the adapting and > refinement of what was then called the 'd20 system'." > > "Also, we don't use the official GDW house system. We have the old > Twilight: 2000 system on attributes/skills/combat. I'm sorry to say > but I never liked the changes (I have not tried the d20 system...but > we're happy (more or less) with the current variant (although we are > discussing some damage/hit capacity changes))." > > _______________________________________________ > Ogf-l mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l > > _______________________________________________ Ogf-l mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.opengamingfoundation.org/mailman/listinfo/ogf-l
