I use Hipster since the beginning on: - three Westmere-based workstations and one X230 laptop for developing parallel CFD code + personal use, - one Atom-based media center.
Things did not break often for me. I actually have less issues than with the Ubuntu LTS which was installed initially on my "work" machine. At least when things do not work, they just do not: they do not break every second update and if they do I can rollback, if one disk is "toast" my root is mirrored... As far as Firefox and Thunderbird are concerned I admit that I use the contrib tarballs version 30.0. I think you should document your issues and file bug reports to pin point the problems. Possibly in a second step, you should reference them on a Wiki page so they can be addressed in the structured way that you suggest. I think I understood from Alexander's numerous emails that the first goal is to be able to build the full distribution with oi-userland so that an unstable/testing/release cycle can be actually considered: the same discussion has been brought up several times with the same arguments. I seem to understand that it is a *prerequisite* to further release work and that the overhead of fixing dependencies/consolidation is not a priority. Also I remember that there are other paths than "pkg update" or reinstalling, as with ZFS and IPS you can image-create (done that for some SXCE/OpenSolaris -> OI upgrade a few years ago). Although I understand your frustration, I think you could target your energy to help documenting and fixing the issues. Considering your interest in distribution planning I think that your best shot would be to help document the steps towards a "fully buildable" Hipster (i.e. missing components that Alexander mentioned), or the showstoppers concerning the upgrade path /dev -> /hipster. Best regards, Aurelien On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 2:35 PM, Nikola M <[email protected]> wrote: > > On 02/18/15 12:54 PM, Alexander Pyhalov wrote: > > >> 2) As for your system freezing after logging in - it's more interesting. >>>> Could you get you ~/.xsession-erros log ? >>>> >>> ... >> >> I've asked several questions, you started this bullshit. OK, let's >> instead of solving your problem, discuss this.... I don't like discussing >> similar topics, but ... >> > > .xsession-errors http://pastebin.com/gVDNjGHK > .xsession-errors.old http://pastebin.com/9vtp3wT9 > > I also suspect some hardware malfunction (but not expressing like this on > every log in), > I also did weird things trying to launch gnome-session you requested, > and I did it running as other user, running, screen, then ssh -l user -X > localhost , then gnome-session, so beware of maybe weird things inside. > >> >> Things do not get tested before releases, releases are not being >>> discussed , made and polished for updates, priorities have not being set, >>> all we actually have is "updating packages" without idea where OI is >>> heading and why and who actually needs a system that does have only part >>> of functionality it had in 2009. >>> At least till 151a7 everything worked, after that it started falling a >>> part. >>> >> >> Things are getting tested. If we had at least 10 developers and 2 >> testers, we could think about some QA. But as we have 2 non-full-day >> developers and a lot of work, I'll leave it as it is. If you have a >> reproducible bug, file it. If you like 151a7 so much, just use it. >> > I just hoped you won't mention recommendation of using old /dev release, > (it is there for features and funcionality reference) but seems like you > like /dev releses more then you admit. > > Numbering Hipster updates inside entire package is not QA, it's just > distribution planning. > By the way, I said my current Hipster have Hipster ancestors all the way > down to update done from 151a7 and I have log somewhere to prove it. > If there are some numbered Hipster releases, or if you wouldn't freeze > unundatable package states in ISOs, > we would have update path from /dev to Hipster already. > How can anyone re-create update path from all those Hipster updates till > now, to figure out when something was broken? (Like my standby on Laptop > stopped working in Hipster last year) > > >> Hipster was fun when I was thinking it leads to the next /dev. >>> It's not fun anymore for a very long time. >>> Rolling releases are just lunacy for general use and could exist only >>> between /dev releases, >>> And not every random package change should survive to next release). >>> >> FreeBSD port system existed in continuously rolling state for a long >> time. We have no power to do release. We have some objectives which I >> periodically discuss. >> > As much I dislike GDA suggesting use of OSX, I also dislike suggesting use > of FreeBSD. If I wanted FreeBSD I wouldn't be here. > FreeBSD and Linux never had stable APIs, and drivers and binaries that > work on many different OS releases. > If I wanted ever changing environment with no rules on updates and > releases, > I would certainly choose Linux or FreeBSD, > seems to me that importing that kind of way of looking at distros is not > applicable to Solaris descendent. > > There needs the process and procedures of doing things, thing get built > that way. > "Periodically ad-hock discussing" things is not enough for distribution to > grow, > especially if new people learn they can't (or can) change course of distro. > > How would you for example react if your updated packages in Hipster, never > end up in /release ? > And it is required that further development starts from /release onwards, > not other way around? > > Would you be mad if your work is actually never used in supported version > of distro, would you accept that there are also other ways of doing things > and your way is not always the best way for production use, ever? > >> >> For the nearest future these are >> 1) Updating Gnome to 2.32 >> 2) Importing changes from x-s12-clone >> 3) Updating cairo, pango and glibc. >> > If we have no power to have any release, what we are actually doing here? > If SOME release (updatable from /dev) is not the goal in at least one > moment, where it is heading? > > At least there must be some release before throwing 32bit cpu support.. > >> >> I use OI Hipster as my primary desktop. I know there issues (e.g., >> brasero bugs, inability of 32-bit gdb to handle 64-bit binaries). >> But I don't know any catastrophic issues which prevents using system >> (besides having a bunch of out-of-date software, which is not rather easy >> to rebuild). >> > I understood you use FreeBSD because illumos, OI does not stupport WPA2 > encryption for Wireless on your laptop. And you moved from there without > fixing it but used something else instead. > Sometimes I think am the rare one that is actually using OI with > Thunderbird. > > Yeah, I've been using cdrecord instead of Brasero etc.. > I used to do ssh -X to run Thunderbird and Firefox for 4 months, after > that I was forced to abandon old user account and transfer minimal data. > It seems it happened again after Hipster update and I have no idea why. > Also I had one occasion few minutes ago when i actually were able to log > in in 20141010 with original account (after running apps through ssh -X, > logging in console, restarting gdm and what else, so It is hard to > reproduce). > Maybe I could toss somewhere other GNOME settings or insights of that > account? > > > > _______________________________________________ > oi-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/oi-dev > -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LARCHER Aurélien | KTH, School of Computer Science and Communication Work: +46 (0) 8 790 71 42 | Lindstedtsvägen 5, Plan 4, 100 44 Stockholm, SWEDEN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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