I'd just like to strongly +1 everything Karen said.  Negative
determinations are useful too.

   Asaf


On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Karen Coyle <[email protected]> wrote:

> I did an analysis of copyright variables for U of California, which you
> can find:
>
> http://www.cdlib.org/groups/rmg/
>
> It was based on the same concerns of Ben's, plus the nervousness of the
> institution's lawyers. It is essentially extended metadata for copyright
> evidence, plus information on "who to call" for more information, which
> would not be appropriate for OL. It also includes a country code since
> any copyright determination is country-specific.
>
> However, the Internet Archive does have copyright declarations AND
> evidence fields for its digitized materials, so you can view those by
> following the link to the full text. I don't know if there's a
> reasonable way to pull those into the OL database.
>
> I understand when people are nervous about recording copyright
> information, but my approach at U of C was that it is a disservice to
> users to not at least tell them what you *do* know about materials you
> are making available. If nothing else, if you have already done a lookup
> in the renewal database and found/not found anything, that should be
> recorded. If you have looked at the title page and the date is before
> 1923 and it is a US publication held in the US, that should be recorded.
> (This is what the Archive does.) If, in the case of U of C, you are the
> holder of an archive but you truly do not know what the copyright status
> of an item is, THAT should be recorded so people know that they
> shouldn't waste their time calling you to ask. More information for
> users is better.
>
> At the same time, with a very few exceptions, actually determining
> copyright status is a lengthy, expensive process. There is some evidence
> that HathiTrust will be going through that process, and US libraries are
> talking about sharing among them their determinations. These will be
> conceptually in the form of:
>
> Harvard U says that this book, published in 1939, was never renewed and
> therefore is in the public domain. They have looked here, and here (or
> they have followed procedure XYZ) to determine this.
>
> I support making this type of information available as widely as
> possible. Actual "copyright declarations" is of course what people wish
> they could get, although those should be done by experts, and even those
> should be accompanied by evidence, as the Archive is doing (albeit their
> only determination is public domain/not public domain).
>
> kc
>
> On 1/29/13 3:56 PM, Ben Companjen wrote:
> > Without wanting to bring down any ideas, I hope you will consider my
> > reflections on your proposal.
> >
> > Summary:
> > - How about focussing on "independent variables" like dates and
> > origins instead of manual labelling?
> > - Research should be recorded
> > - Are there identifiers?
> >
> >
> > I like the idea of being able to tell whether a work (or rather
> > edition, when there are text differences between editions) is in the
> > public domain - and of course we're not alone in that respect, given
> > the public domain calculators [1] and guidelines for determining
> > copyright status. Open Library may be a place for it. For scanned
> > books, there is a copyright notice already on the Internet Archive
> > detail page, albeit without (much?) provenance.
> >
> > But one good reason for the existence of these tools for determining
> > copyright status is of course the diversity of copyright laws across
> > the globe. I'm in a different jurisdiction than you (unless you're in
> > the Netherlands too ;-)), so (as far as I know) different terms apply
> > here even to books published in the US. The most extreme example is
> > countries without copyright laws, for which any of the statuses you
> > propose are, well, meaningless. And as time progresses (and the US
> > definition of public domain can be changed by Congress, apparently), a
> > manually assigned status will most likely change.
> >
> > Even though determining copyright status isn't / may never be easy, it
> > may eventually be automated. Could it be more useful to focus on the
> > inputs of copyright status determination (publication date, publisher,
> > author death date, copyright holding organisation) and make sure these
> > are recorded correctly? Research can already be recorded in a general
> > text field like edition notes (without the specific designation, of
> > course), but it may be useful to record it separately. Let me propose
> > that the words "copyright research" be added to research in notes, to
> > enable retrieving the records later with a text search.
> > By the way: can the research be modelled as (a small set of) simple
> > assertions, like "book has copyright notice and copyright notice says
> > copyright is held by X starting 1925"? I'm thinking this may help
> > letting machines do the work (in the future).
> >
> > Regarding external (renewal) databases: do they have identifiers that
> > could be added?
> >
> > Some general remarks:
> > - these seem serious questions, for which I don't think you would need
> > to apologise :)
> > - I'm afraid there is little activity on developing new features from
> > IA developers...
> > - ... but/and I don't know the current status or future plans
> > - you're welcome to contribute to the code (or at least propose code
> > changes) [2] :)
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > [1] e.g. http://wiki.okfn.org/Public_Domain_Calculators
> > [2] https://github.com/internetarchive/openlibrary
> >
> > On 1 December 2012 19:59, Adelle Frank <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> On a non-spam-related note, would it be possible to add these 2
> intellectual
> >> property fields to the librarian mode on Open Library: Copyright status
> &
> >> Copyright evidence?
> >>
> >> I don't think the general public would want to see these on the basic
> edits
> >> page, but they would be extremely useful to those of us gathering
> copyright
> >> status evidence for certain 1923-63 books published in the US.
> >>
> >> Example options for the Copyright Status field might be:
> >>
> >> not yet researched (a good default for 1923+ published works in the US)
> >> public domain (a good default for pre-1923 published works in the US)
> >> copyright owned by organization
> >> copyright owned by individual
> >> orphan work
> >>
> >> The Copyright Evidence field would probably need to be a textarea
> field. It
> >> could include help text that gives an example, such as: "Physical copy
> has
> >> no visible notice of copyright symbol or wording and stated publication
> >> information is 1907 in the USA." or "©House of the Church of the
> Brethren
> >> (A130150). Catalog of Copyright Entries, 1954 - Page 94.
> >> http://www.archive.org/details/catalogofcopyrig381lib). However, no
> evidence
> >> of renewal found in Stanford or LC renewal databases."
> >>
> >> Apologies if I am asking for difficult things! I enjoy OpenLibrary very
> much
> >> and wanted to contribute a few ideas that could lead to even more
> >> crowd-sourcing.
> >>
> >> Appreciative of your excellent work on this open access project,
> >>
> >> ~Adelle Frank
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> [email protected]
> >>
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>
> --
> Karen Coyle
> [email protected] http://kcoyle.net
> ph: 1-510-540-7596
> m: 1-510-435-8234
> skype: kcoylenet
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    Asaf Bartov
    Wikimedia Foundation <http://www.wikimediafoundation.org>

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