Thanks for the quick response. Despite my comments about the non-educational advantages of readable displays and mesh networking, I totally agree that documentation for the G1G1 program has to make it very clear that it isn't a commercial marketing program. In fact, the XO does seem to be a very cool gadget, but it's up to the users to figure it out (RTFM, for starters), and to help each other via user email lists, etc. like the linux and other open source software communities do. The web site and documentation that comes with the XO just have to explain up front that due to the project's focus on its core mission, staff can't directly trouble-shoot fixable problems. Encourage donors to join a buddy system in their area. People like to help others by sharing the skills they've discovered. The biggest limitation right now is probably the lack of a critical mass of users who've had the XO long enough to able to help out. That will be fixed by getting more donor units into circulation, not less. If there were XO user groups in each major city, even many hardware issues could be fixed wthout taking up a lot of staff time.

I agree that arranging replacements for truly defective or damaged units is unavoidable, but with good qualify control and a reliable shipping method that shouldn't be a big deal. In fact, it occurs to me that a commerial supplier like Dell might be persuaded to handle the shipping process at cost. The XO is hardly competition for its products, and it would be a good will gesture that might well generate more business for them. That way you'd just have to ship the units from the manufacturer to a Dell warehouse in each region. You might even get them to donate some of the overhead cost in return for a thank-you acknowledgement with the packaging. They do a good job getting their own products to people quickly, and they have staff in place to take care of returns efficiently. Farm it out.

Clear documentation is going to be crucial whether G1G1 continues or not. If intelligent and motivated donors can't figure the XO out, neither will many teachers, and they'll end up not using it. The questions asked by donors will help to alert the project's help desk staff and volunteers to items that need to be explained better (or designed better), and thereby help the target educational users. I looked at the G1G1 portion of the website again, and it sounds as though it was never intended to be permanent. The site says that it has been "extended" to Dec. 31, not that it has been decided to terminate it then. It sounds like a rather too successful pilot project that prepared for the volume it generated. But that's not a reason to give up on it - instead, redesign it and take full advantage the donations, enthusiasm, etc., that it will create. OLPC isn't a commercial business, but that doesn't mean that no business principles are relevant to it. OLPC has found an unexpectedly large niche with people who are able and willing to contribute in return for getting a unit of their own, and it would just be good sense to take advantage of it.

Jim PS: I just saw Steve's posting, and have to disagree. Apple is already in the commercial market (to put it mildly), so an educational-only promotion makes sense, and they don't need to create a community of experienced Apple users to offer support to their primary overseas market. It's just a totally different situation. PPS: It doesn't appear that the "give many" program is being ended or cut back. However, it doesn't allow anyone to actually see an XO laptop. If a group is trying to get together enough contributions to donate 100 computers, it shouldn't cost them $300 each, or at least, there should be an explanation for the additional amount. The numbers just seem to be round figures pulled out of a hat - $300 each for 100 or more, $250 each for 1000 or more, etc. Those don't sound like realistic estimates of the actual cost of sending out computers in those numbers.


Nicole Lee wrote:
the G1G1 program is a huge strain on the people directly involved in the project, though. there are a lot of benefits, such as the number of enthusiastic people brought into the project, eager to get cracking and help out. on the other hand, we're scrambling to keep donors happy, answer customer support questions, deal with possible returns, etc. even passing a lot of this to the volunteer community, there are still things that must be handled within the organization, especially if this is a commercial or semi-commercial enterprise. many view themselves not as donors, but as customers, and expect a high level of service, documentation, support, and so on for something that is very much a work-in-progress. this means that somebody working on it has to stop whatever they're building to work on documentation, communication, answering angry emails...

having the documentation and directions and support staff is a great thing, and is really something that i've wanted for a while, but if we continue G1G1 the number of issues will continue to increase, just from the sheer volume of people with XOs, and at a certain point i believe it will begin to really have a negative impact on the productivity of the community. running a G1G1 type program full time would be great publicity, support, make people who want to be able to get laptops happy, but it would also greatly increase the number of people who don't understand that OLPC is not in the business of selling cool gadgets to [comparably] wealthy adults, and these people demand service at a level that involves abandoning the educational goals of the project in favor of a better business model. OLPC is not here to be a corporation, and placing too much emphasis on G1G1 and similar programs is a risky move, because it puts OLPC down the path towards competitive business.

is turning over developers to customer service and marketing really what's best for this project?

can the project succeed without consumer support?

-nikki

On Dec 29, 2007 2:42 AM, Jim Sayre < [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

    I think the key is for project management to remember that the OLPC
    project is a revolutionary idea to shift from paper-based learning to
    digital learning, with the XO is just one very early tool that will
    begin that process.  It's ability to replace a conventional laptop is
    besides the point, since it has a completely different core purpose.

    Having said that, though, the project is missing a huge potential
    benefit by cancelling G1G1, rather than remarketing it as a way for
    people in developed countries to contribute to the project's core
    purposes.  While using the internet is just one (and not the most
    important) educational activity students will use the XO for, it
    can add
    a great deal of value to the tool, and at the same time help to solve
    (rather than create) problems.

    An earlier thread suggested pairing students in G1G1 families with
    students in the recipient countries.  There's no reason why such
    pairing
    requires both students to have XO computers, but it would be a nice
    touch, and would help the donor student understand what the recipient
    could and could not do.  But a major benefit of such pairing would
    be to
    develop a large community of knowledgeable volunteers to serve as
    helpers for the recipient students.  I've seen a couple of comments
    along those lines, and I agree with them.  I'm on the Board of a
    non-profit community network with over 10,000 users and only one
    employed tech person; we manage almost everything through volunteers.
    The OLPC project is a far more attractive and manageable way to
    contribute some time than to coach users with a variety of old and
    maybe
    defective equipment through a variety of connection problems.

    Similarly, our volunteers manage most of our membership and donation
    activities.  A great deal of the volunteering is done online, and I
    can't see any reason why the OLPC project, with the level of
    commitment
    it already has (and more on way with each new G1G1 unit that gets
    into
    circulation) can't do the same.  Volunteers could keep track of the
    payments, maintain a database or donors who would be offered
    chances to
    volunteer, ensure that delivery problems are explained and resolved,
    pair interested students, find suitable volunteer jobs for donors
    willing to contribute, and so on.  The amazing levels of coordination
    achieved by the open source software community proves that none of
    those
    things are impossible.

    In addition to the one to one relationships that would be created,
    each
    donor family is a potential evangelist for the project.  The
    elementary
    school which my daughter attended beginning about 10 years ago had
    only
    a stand-alone computer lab with maybe 20 Macs.  Classes would rotate
    into the room once a week for an hour or so of computer learning,
    which
    was by design and necessity an entirely separate subject from the
    rest
    of the schooling.   During all those years, I had to pay up to
    $100 per
    year in "supply fees" because our school board, despite all its tax
    support, couldn't make ends meet otherwise.  The parent
    association came
    up with the funds for the computer lab, and even much of the
    playground
    equipment.  If someone had shown the parents that for $150 each
    (in the
    first year) the school could provide every child with their own
    computer, making digital learning an integral part of the whole
    educational process, I think they'd have overwhelmingly supported it.
    Of course, in those days laptops were more like $2000, so it wouldn't
    have been practical, but now it is.  And the benefits of creating such
    educational clusters of OLPC users throughout the developed world are
    enormous - to foster volunteers, donations, political support, and (by
    the way) better educated kids.

    G1G1 is a win win idea if there ever was one.  I don't see why
    manufacturing should be an issue.  If the capacity is there to fill a
    country's order, it can be used to built a reasonable number of units
    for donor families.  The donation portion of the cost would presumably
    be held until there's enough to fund (or supplement) an order for 3rd
    world use.  In the meantime, the pairing would be with recipient kids
    who already have the XO; I agree that trying to identify the
    individual
    child whose computer was donated by the family would make it very hard
    to manage, and while some charities find that sort of thing good for
    advertising, I don't think it's necessary.  This isn't a project to
    adopt a child, it's to foster a better means of education.

    Jim

    PS:  While educational uses should be by far the main focus,
    aspects of
    the XO have great potential benefits for other purposes.  Have you
    ever
    tried to use a conventional laptop in your car on a sunny day.  If the
    screen technology really allows for use in bright sunlight, it
    would be
    a better tool for many travelling users (and even those who just
    want to
    do email on their patio in the summer).

    Probably the most innovative feature is the built-in mesh networking.
    Companies have to hire consultants to set up  internal networks, and
    maintaining them is a constant expense.  Our community network is
    beginning to experiment with mesh as a means of allowing residents
    in a
    housing complex (low-income public housing in particular) to share
    just
    a few broadband internet connections, and in the process enable all of
    the kids to have the benefits of home computing.  But just buying an
    add-on mesh device and configuring it will cost a substantial chunk of
    the XO's price tag, and it has mesh built-in and pre-configured as
    part
    of the OS.  Now that's a option that not even top end computers
    currently offer.  The military has some projects to use mesh on the
    battlefield, but no one else is doing it on a large scale for useful
    purposes.  The XO could be a technology leader in this area, and if
    classes in developed countries begin to adopt it, and realize its
    benefits, so will the parents.  Think of the good publicity that would
    generate for the project.


    Steve Holton wrote:
    > I must *strongly* recommend *against* ending the G1G1 program. Or at
    > least replace it with some mechanism for maintaining white market
    > availability of growth systems and spares.
    >
    > The availability of hardware is the one of the last chokepoints
    which
    > would allow an adversary to kill-off the OLPC mission and North
    > American success. (The other is mission creep: changing the OLPC
    > mission from one of developing an educational platform into one of
    > competing in the North American laptop computer market.) And the
    > adversaries know this.
    >
    > The market price point is proven.
    > The community is proven.
    > The infrastructure problems (a huge hurdle) for distribution
    channel,
    > customer service, support, etc. have been largely worked through.
    > (quite to my own disbelief)
    >
    > The next chokepoint would be to drain the market of hardware
    through:
    > - natural attrition of hardware failures.
    > - tying-up the manufacturing facilities by offering lucrative
    > contracts to Quanta to build something else.
    > - market removal (buying-up systems offered on eBay, offering a
    > trade-in allowance, etc).
    >
    > As long as OLPC can maintain the availability of spare parts and new
    > systems for growth, both the XONA (XO North America, using the
    XO as a
    > laptop computer) and the XOEE (XO Educational Endeavor) will grow.
    >
    > This could be accomplished:
    > - short term:  make a committment to the availability of new systems
    > and spares (price point is unimportant, enthusiasts being what they
    > are) through an 'Official OLPC program'.
    > - long term: multi-source hardware availability.
    >
    > On Dec 28, 2007 1:29 PM, Seth Woodworth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
    <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>
    wrote:
    >
    >     I *think* that it is ending for the following reasons:
    >
    >     1.) Quanta can only make so many machines per month, and
    there is
    >     a backlog of orders for target nations.
    >
    >
    > Agreed, but the competition knows that.
    > Constricted manufacturing channels are only a factor if a
    component is
    > single source, and then only when hard deadlines (like 'ship before
    > the holidays') are in play. OLPC supporters will gladly wait 2
    months
    > to get systems if they understand the wait up front.  (Many already
    > have...)
    >
    >
    >     2.) It is a a *lot* harder to ship 10,000 laptops to 10,000
    people
    >     than 10,000 to one country.  Selling laptops retail isn't the
    >     business that OLPC really needs to be in.
    >
    >
    > Agreed 100%.  That was a tactical mistake on the part of OLPC.  If
    > they had marketed XO's strictly as an educational tool, (they
    actually
    > did a pretty good job) it would have gone a long way toward
    answering
    > the inevitable questions like "how do I install Flash, why can't I
    > connect to every imaginable wireless access point, etc.) The
    community
    > would have found answers to those anyway (as proven) and OLPC
    wouldn't
    > have been on the hook to do so.
    >
    > However, the hard part of building the infrastructure to ship 1
    system
    > to 1,000,000 different people has largely been built. Sunk cost at
    > this point.
    >
    >     3.) They need to stop G1G1 in the US and Canada so they can
    start
    >     to scale up for Europe and Asia G1G1 sales.
    >
    >
    > Europe and Asia deserve a chance to G1G1, too. (A mistake, IMHO, to
    > try to exclude them from G1G1, but there may have been logistical
    > considerations I don't understand) But if making them available in
    > Europe comes at the cost of availability in North America, I'm going
    > to be arranging to purchase my spares through GreyMarketEurope.
    >
    >     Good question, and not an intuitive answer.  This belongs on
    the
    >     wiki somewhere.
    >
    >     Seth
    >
    >
    >     On Dec 28, 2007 8:00 AM, Josh Cogliati
    <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
    >     <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
    <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
    >
    >         Why is the give one get one program ending?  The
    >         program has brought millions of dollars of donations
    >         to OLPC.  As well it provides a good way to get
    >         hardware if you are undecided on developing for the
    >         machine.  Plus it provides a price ceiling on ebay
    >         sales.  So, why is the program ending?
    >
    >         Josh Cogliati
    >
    >
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    >
    >
    >
    > --
    > Steve Holton
    > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <mailto:
    [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
    >
    >
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