Regarding the properties of CC… I think that Charles Sanders Peirce, within the context of biosemiotics, is a great first place to start. Factoring in biosemiotics, his three categories (firstness, secondness and thirdness) can be shown to be relevant to all living entities. These three categories can be understood in the context of motivation, association (associative learning) and habituation. They apply to all living things, and it was the primary purpose of my 2001 Semiotica article (The law of association of habits) to draw attention to that proposition. The categories (understood with reference to motivation, association, habituation) provide the basis upon which any living entity “defines the things that matter” (pragmatism). The question is… can they also apply to matter and to ANY manifestation of CC? Peirce himself alluded to this when he described matter as “mind hide-bound in habit”.
Or, at the risk of appearing facetious, what associations might God be habituating to motivate Him to create life? Why does this matter to Him? Is there any such thing as not Being? Why does Being matter over Not-Being? Regards From: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL [mailto:vinodsehgal1...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 6:28 AM To: Vasavada, Kashyap V; Rajendra Bajpai; Stephen Jarosek; Dean Radin; Robert Boyer; Paul Werbos; Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal; G Srinivasan; Prateek Budhwar; BVKSastry(Gmail); BT APJ; Asingh2384; Stanley A. KLEIN; Sungchul Ji; Murty Hari; sisir roy Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: from distraction back to actual psi Dear Kashyapji, Bajapaiji, and Stephen, Kashyap wrote: " Discussions of consciousness and CC are very interesting. However as a physicist let me point out that we are all searching in darkness. Earth is just a little tiny planet in a universe with billions of galaxies each with billions of stars and planets. We do not know if there is life elsewhere and more importantly what kind of life it is. We do not even know how far down consciousness goes in the tree of life. In fact ,inert matter could have some small degree of consciousness. Then to assume that consciousness requires a brain sitting in a body made out of organic material which looks like human being is naïve and silly at best! So such issues need complete open mindedness." Consciousness from ubiquitous CC does not go specifically in any discrete object the way ubiquitous space does not go specifically in any object. CC has been every where and across all periods of time ( in fact beyond space/time), therefore, already present in all the objects but it remains insulated from the majority of the objects. Since the vast majority of the matter in the universe is inorganic in nature, consciousness of CC does not manifest on such physical system. As the matter in only small parts of the universe evolves into complex organic compounds form, consciousness from CC manifests on such physical systems and life appears. I think this is the complex organic compounds which SJ is referring to as the dirt. But life crucial properties are not only the outcome of dumb dirt as indicated by SJ in his following quote. Dumb dirt serves as the platform appropriate for the manifestation of CC. "3) The life-crucial properties of dumb dirt are complex and precise. Dumb dirt is actually very smart, and it seems inconceivable to me how a dumb-luck universe can even be taken seriously;" It will quite naive to assume that dumb dirt exists only on our earth, a very very small fraction of our unimaginably vast universe. Definitely, dumb dirt should be existing in many places in our universe not only during the present period but across many periods in past also. In view of this, CC, which existed even before the creation of the universe, should have been manifesting in the dumb dust at those places. From this one can infer that life, as we know at earth, should be existing at many places in the universe. Our inability to detect life with the present technomlogy does not dilute this argument since to assume that our present technology has pinnacled to detect all the corners of the universe will be the naive one. After all the time period of the present technology is only a few decades or centuries which is very very small fraction of the estimated age of the universe. Vinod Sehgal On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 10:36 PM, Rajendra Bajpai <rpbaj...@gmail.com> wrote: Dear Kashyap ji, Thanks for your suggestion but I am a little more hopeful, perhaps, because of my cultural baggage. The important ingredients of the baggage giving hope are 1. Science that tells that a single human mind may not succeed in understanding CC but cumulative efforts of many minds over a long period of time will make significant progress. We have succeeded in discovering galaxies, stars and planets. We have learnt about the stuff( organic matter) and the recipe used in making us. 2. Hindu Religious upbringing tells me that the knowing of CC is the ultimate goal of every human being and many persons did attain the goal. 3. Physics background forces me to agree with Stapp. CC not only provides me with a unique outcome in the quantum world, but also prepares me to ask the questions. Perhaps, CC intends to become more comprehensible in the near future. Finally, 4. Vastness of the universe has a very little in the incomprehensibility of CC. There is no need to be over-awed. CC is incomprehensible even in a small part of the universe. Rajendra Bajpai From: Vasavada, Kashyap V [mailto:vasav...@iupui.edu] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 10:11 PM To: Rajendra Bajpai <rpbaj...@gmail.com> Cc: Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: from distraction back to actual psi Dear Bajpaiji , Vinodji and all interested, Discussions of consciousness and CC are very interesting. However as a physicist let me point out that we are all searching in darkness. Earth is just a little tiny planet in a universe with billions of galaxies each with billions of stars and planets. We do not know if there is life elsewhere and more importantly what kind of life it is. We do not even know how far down consciousness goes in the tree of life. In fact ,inert matter could have some small degree of consciousness. Then to assume that consciousness requires a brain sitting in a body made out of organic material which looks like human being is naïve and silly at best! So such issues need complete open mindedness. Best Regards. kashyap From: Rajendra Bajpai [mailto:rpbaj...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 2:35 AM To: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL <vinodsehgal1...@gmail.com> Cc: Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal <rlpvi...@yahoo.co.in>; Vasavada, Kashyap V <vasav...@iupui.edu>; Vivekanand Pandey Vimal <vvimald...@gmail.com>; Paul Werbos <paul.wer...@gmail.com>; Stanley A. KLEIN <skl...@berkeley.edu>; Alex Hankey <alexhan...@gmail.com>; Robert Boyer <rw.bo...@yahoo.com>; Sungchul Ji <sji.confor...@gmail.com>; sisir roy <sisir.sisir...@gmail.com>; Siegfried Bleher <sble...@msn.com>; BVKSastry(Gmail) <sastry....@gmail.com>; Murty Hari <murty_h...@yahoo.com>; BT APJ <alfredo.pere...@gmail.com>; From the Chief Editor, J. Integr. Neurosci., IOS Press <poznan...@biomedical.utm.my>; George Weissmann <georgew...@aol.com>; G Srinivasan <gsvas...@gmail.com>; Prateek Budhwar <p.budh...@gmail.com> Subject: RE: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: from distraction back to actual psi Dear Vinod ji, Consciousness is an enigma. You enhance its enigmatic value by suggesting another layer ,cosmic consciousness (CC), to it. The properties of CC mentioned in your mail raise disturbing questions. Some questions are given below: 1. If CC is ubiquitous like space, then do it and manifested version have date of birth and in particular, do they precede, synchronize with, or follow the Big Bang singularity? Since the manifestation of CC requires organic matter of requisite specification, the organic matter has some special status. Who confers the special status? Is there any criterion in selecting the matter for special status? Why and How and related questions? Special status is emblemishing or adding Prapanch(प्रपंच ) to CC. 2. What type of information about CC is contained in entities manifesting CC? Do different entities contain different aspects or amounts of information? Does it has any resemblance to spontaneous breakdown of symmetry? 3. Why many properties of the entities manifesting CC are not coupled with CC? Is the influence of CC limited to only a few properties? Can we identify these properties? 4. Do you have any specific objections if we envisage that the role of CC is restricted only to measuring processes as proposed by Henry Stapp? It will allow the manifestation of CC even in non-organic measuring instruments. Finally, I noticed that you live in Noida and myself in Gurugram, can we meet to discuss these issues. My mobile: +91 8373970360 <tel:083739%2070360> Rajendra Bajpai From: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL <mailto:vinodsehgal1...@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 6:00 PM To: Rajendra Bajpai <mailto:rpbaj...@gmail.com> Cc: Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal <mailto:rlpvi...@yahoo.co.in> ; Vasavada, Kashyap V <mailto:vasav...@iupui.edu> ; Vivekanand Pandey Vimal <mailto:vvimald...@gmail.com> ; Paul Werbos <mailto:paul.wer...@gmail.com> ; Stanley A. KLEIN <mailto:skl...@berkeley.edu> ; Alex Hankey <mailto:alexhan...@gmail.com> ; Robert Boyer <mailto:rw.bo...@yahoo.com> ; Sungchul Ji <mailto:sji.confor...@gmail.com> ; sisir roy <mailto:sisir.sisir...@gmail.com> ; Siegfried Bleher <mailto:sble...@msn.com> ; BVKSastry(Gmail) <mailto:sastry....@gmail.com> ; Murty Hari <mailto:murty_h...@yahoo.com> ; BT APJ <mailto:alfredo.pere...@gmail.com> ; From the Chief Editor, J. Integr. Neurosci., IOS Press <mailto:poznan...@biomedical.utm.my> ; George Weissmann <mailto:georgew...@aol.com> ; G Srinivasan <mailto:gsvas...@gmail.com> ; Prateek Budhwar <mailto:p.budh...@gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: from distraction back to actual psi Dear Bajpaiji, The way space is ubiquitous present in all entities similarly consciousness in its cosmic consciousness (CC) form is ubiquitous and present in all entities. However, despite being ubiquitous, consciousness from CC does not get identified with and manifests to the inert entities. For identification and manifestation to any entity, it should have the organic matter of some requisite specifications. It is on account of this that consciousness manifests and identifies with living organisms having the organic matter of required specification and arranged in some special configuration. In view of this, it is not correct to say that inert entities have the consciousness. Vinod Sehgal Noida On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Rajendra Bajpai <rpbaj...@gmail.com> wrote: I would like to share some selected incidents involving psi 1. I met late Vimala Thakkar( Indian) only once with his disciple. She had been the president of theosophical society and was spiritual. She agreed to talk about consciousness. We talked for nearly an hour and she replied to many questions that came to my mind but before I uttered these questions. She was talking about individual consciousness field of both living and non-living systems. I was sceptic about the consciousness in non-living systems. The interview came to an end because I lost my concentration and start thinking something else. She immediately sensed it and bade good bye. She also said that we may further discuss it IF we meet in future. We could not meet again. 2. I spent nearly a month with an Italian healer Renzo Celani. We were interested to find some measurable effects of psi. I performed similar investigations with many other healers as well. I am mentioning Renzo because of his involvements in many experiments. a. I measured spontaneous photon emission from his hands on many days also during his healing sessions. His emission was well coordinated. The photo count distribution corresponded to the emission in squeezed state. It was measured by squeezed state index (SSI) to be nearly 1 in most measurements. The SSI of a patient was around 0.5 before the healing done in the dark room with mental processes by Renzo. During the healing SSI of the patient increased to 0.85 and just after the healing the SSI of Renzo came down to around 0.65. A few hours after the healing, SSI of Renzo came back to 1 and of the patient to around 0.5. I requested Renzo to repeat the healing session with a healthy person but no change in SSI occurred. b. Renzo was talking about some connection with the patient and once offered be to connect with the Sun. A sensation passed through my body as if I received a shock of electric current and he immediately said that he is disconnecting me as I could not tolerate. c. I requested him to change the background noise of a sensitive photo multiplier(PMT). I was measuring noise every 10ms and a single effort of Renzo in decreasing background noise continued, at least, for few seconds . Renzo continued his efforts for two minutes. He repeated the experiment for a few times. A large dip did appear in some measurement of 10ms during the efforts of 2min. I could not discover any systematic pattern in the dips and further the dips could be from statistical variations. Something like black swan events. d. Renzo was also talking about some radiation/field emitted by material specific to species of the material. Renzo could identify the material from its radiation. The radiation emitted from a sample was enhanced if the sample was exposed to light for a few seconds. We tested the capability of Renzo in a sample chamber with 16 rotating sample holders. I put material in 16 sample holders and kept one holder empty. Alex Popp put these samples inside the chamber in some order, which he did not disclose. So nobody knew the contents of the sample holders. Each sample was exposed to white light for 10s and then no measurement was made of the delayed luminescence of the sample. The sample chamber was metallic and thick and did not allow any light or electric field emitted by the sample to come out. Even then, Renzo perceived the radiation from each sample but we did not. Renzo correctly identified 12 samples. He correctly identified the empty sample holder and samples of non-living material. 3. I measured the effect of blessing /healing on a lichen sample by Romanian healer and on leaves by an Indian healer. Rajendra Bajpai From: email@example.com [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] On Behalf Of Kushal Shah Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 8:15 PM To: Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: from distraction back to actual psi On Jan 27, 2018 3:03 PM, "Alex Hankey" <alexhan...@gmail.com> wrote: Because anyone who continuously knew all the thoughts of others would be so deeply stressed and outraged by what they were picking up. Others thinking derogatory thoughts about them etc. That's actually true! This is why many people who develop these powers loose track of the spiritual process. And most genuine Gurus strictly tell their disciples to avoid such powers and surrender them as soon as they arise. Even most enlightened Gurus who have these powers are extremely careful and selective in using them. >From my side, I have once or twice sat in a meeting with His Holiness >Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, my teacher, during which I had a thought of >considerable value, relevant to the discussion, and listened to him repeat the >ideas contained in it very soon after I had the thought. Please Note: there is >no proof of the direction of transmission of the ideas - either of us might >have had the thought first, or else it might have arisen simultaneously in >both our minds. BUT Something was Definitely Occurring. Yes, that is a very common occurrence with many people. Not just with teacher-disciple, we find this even with our close relatives, friends and even scientific collaborators. When we share the same space with people we connect with emotionally or intellectually, a certain kind of spontaneous resonance can happen which leads to similar thoughts or even the same words coming out of the mouths of two different people. I am not sure if a scientific explanation of these phenomenon is going to be possible, but it will be a great achievement if we can conclusively demonstrate that there is a non-physical dimension of this universe beyond the reach of objective measurement tools. We should perhaps also not expect the larger scientific community to accept such things. But can we at least convince ourselves and those who are willing to consider these possibilities? Best, Kushal. _________________________________________ Kushal Shah @ EECS Dept, IISER Bhopal <http://home.iiserb.ac.in/~kushals> http://home.iiserb.ac.in/~kushals -- -- ---------------------------- Fifth International Conference Science and Scientist - 2017 August 18—19, 2017 Nepal Pragya Pratisthan, Kathmandu, Nepal http://scsiscs.org/conference/scienceandscientist/2017 Send a Donation to Support Our Services: http://scienceandscientist.org/donate (All Indian residents are eligible for tax benefits for their contributions under section 80G of the Income Tax Act) Report Archives: http://bviscs.org/reports Why Biology is Beyond Physical Sciences?: http://dx.doi.org/10.5923/j.als.20160601.03 Life and consciousness – The Vedāntic view: http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/19420889.2015.1085138 Harmonizer: http://scienceandscientist.org/harmonizer Darwin Under Siege: http://scienceandscientist.org/Darwin Princeton Bhakti Vedanta Institute: http://bviscs.org Sri Chaitanya Saraswat Institute: http://scsiscs.org Sadhu-Sanga Blog: http://mahaprabhu.net/satsanga Contact Us: http://scsiscs.org/contact --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Sadhu-Sanga Under the holy association of Spd. 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