Regarding the properties of CC… I think that Charles Sanders Peirce, within the 
context of biosemiotics, is a great first place to start. Factoring in 
biosemiotics, his three categories (firstness, secondness and thirdness) can be 
shown to be relevant to all living entities. These three categories can be 
understood in the context of motivation, association (associative learning) and 
habituation. They apply to all living things, and it was the primary purpose of 
my 2001 Semiotica article (The law of association of habits) to draw attention 
to that proposition. The categories (understood with reference to motivation, 
association, habituation) provide the basis upon which any living entity 
“defines the things that matter” (pragmatism). The question is… can they also 
apply to matter and to ANY manifestation of CC? Peirce himself alluded to this 
when he described matter as “mind hide-bound in habit”. 

Or, at the risk of appearing facetious, what associations might God be 
habituating to motivate Him to create life? Why does this matter to Him? Is 
there any such thing as not Being? Why does Being matter over Not-Being?

Regards

 

From: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL [mailto:vinodsehgal1...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 5, 2018 6:28 AM
To: Vasavada, Kashyap V; Rajendra Bajpai; Stephen Jarosek; Dean Radin; Robert 
Boyer; Paul Werbos; Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal; G Srinivasan; Prateek Budhwar; 
BVKSastry(Gmail); BT APJ; Asingh2384; Stanley A. KLEIN; Sungchul Ji; Murty 
Hari; sisir roy
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: from distraction back to actual psi

 

Dear Kashyapji, Bajapaiji, and Stephen,

 

Kashyap wrote:

 

" Discussions of consciousness and CC are very interesting. However as a 
physicist let me point out that we are all searching in darkness. Earth is just 
a little tiny planet in a universe with billions of galaxies each with billions 
of stars and planets. We do not know if there is life elsewhere and more 
importantly what kind of life it is.  We do not even know how far down 
consciousness goes in the tree of life. In fact ,inert matter could have some 
small degree of consciousness. Then to assume that consciousness requires a 
brain sitting in a body made out of organic material which looks like human 
being is naïve and silly at best! So such issues need complete open mindedness."

 

Consciousness from ubiquitous CC does not go specifically in any discrete 
object the way ubiquitous space does not go specifically in any object. CC  has 
been every where and across all periods of time ( in fact beyond space/time), 
therefore, already present in all the objects but it remains insulated from the 
majority of the objects. Since the vast majority of the matter in the universe 
is inorganic in nature, consciousness of CC does not manifest on such physical 
system. As the matter in only small parts of the universe evolves into complex 
organic compounds form, consciousness from CC manifests on such physical 
systems and life appears.

 

I think this is the complex organic compounds which SJ is referring to as the 
dirt. But life crucial properties are not only the outcome of dumb dirt as 
indicated by SJ in his following quote. Dumb dirt serves as the platform 
appropriate for the manifestation of CC.

 

"3)      The life-crucial properties of dumb dirt are complex and precise. Dumb 
dirt is actually very smart, and it seems inconceivable to me how a dumb-luck 
universe can even be taken seriously;"

 

It will quite naive to assume that dumb dirt exists only on our earth, a very 
very small fraction of our unimaginably vast universe. Definitely, dumb dirt 
should be existing in many places in our universe not only during the present 
period but across many periods in past also. In view of this, CC, which existed 
even before the creation of the universe, should have been manifesting in the 
dumb dust at those places. From this one can infer that life, as we know at 
earth, should be existing at many places in the universe. Our inability to 
detect life with the present technomlogy does not dilute this argument since to 
assume that our present technology has pinnacled to detect all the corners of 
the universe will be the naive one. After all the time period of the present 
technology is only a few decades or centuries which is very very small fraction 
of the estimated age of the universe.

 

Vinod Sehgal

 

 

On Fri, Feb 2, 2018 at 10:36 PM, Rajendra Bajpai <rpbaj...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Kashyap ji,

Thanks for your suggestion but I am a little more hopeful, perhaps, because of 
my cultural baggage.  The important ingredients of the baggage giving hope are

1.      Science that tells that a single human mind may not succeed in 
understanding CC but cumulative efforts of many minds over a long period of 
time will make significant progress. We have succeeded in discovering galaxies, 
stars and planets. We have learnt about the stuff( organic matter) and the 
recipe used in making us.
2.      Hindu Religious upbringing tells me that the knowing of CC is the 
ultimate goal of every human being and many persons did attain the goal.
3.      Physics background forces me to agree with Stapp. CC not only provides 
me with a unique outcome in the quantum world, but also prepares me to ask the 
questions. Perhaps, CC intends to become more comprehensible in the near future.
Finally,
4.      Vastness of the universe has a very little in the incomprehensibility 
of CC. There is no need to be over-awed.  CC is incomprehensible even in a 
small part of the universe. 

Rajendra Bajpai

 

From: Vasavada, Kashyap V [mailto:vasav...@iupui.edu] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 10:11 PM
To: Rajendra Bajpai <rpbaj...@gmail.com>


Cc: Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: from distraction back to actual psi

 

Dear Bajpaiji , Vinodji and all interested,

Discussions of consciousness and CC are very interesting. However as a 
physicist let me point out that we are all searching in darkness. Earth is just 
a little tiny planet in a universe with billions of galaxies each with billions 
of stars and planets. We do not know if there is life elsewhere and more 
importantly what kind of life it is.  We do not even know how far down 
consciousness goes in the tree of life. In fact ,inert matter could have some 
small degree of consciousness. Then to assume that consciousness requires a 
brain sitting in a body made out of organic material which looks like human 
being is naïve and silly at best! So such issues need complete open mindedness.

Best Regards.

kashyap

 

From: Rajendra Bajpai [mailto:rpbaj...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2018 2:35 AM
To: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL <vinodsehgal1...@gmail.com>
Cc: Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal <rlpvi...@yahoo.co.in>; Vasavada, Kashyap V 
<vasav...@iupui.edu>; Vivekanand Pandey Vimal <vvimald...@gmail.com>; Paul 
Werbos <paul.wer...@gmail.com>; Stanley A. KLEIN <skl...@berkeley.edu>; Alex 
Hankey <alexhan...@gmail.com>; Robert Boyer <rw.bo...@yahoo.com>; Sungchul Ji 
<sji.confor...@gmail.com>; sisir roy <sisir.sisir...@gmail.com>; Siegfried 
Bleher <sble...@msn.com>; BVKSastry(Gmail) <sastry....@gmail.com>; Murty Hari 
<murty_h...@yahoo.com>; BT APJ <alfredo.pere...@gmail.com>; From the Chief 
Editor, J. Integr. Neurosci., IOS Press <poznan...@biomedical.utm.my>; George 
Weissmann <georgew...@aol.com>; G Srinivasan <gsvas...@gmail.com>; Prateek 
Budhwar <p.budh...@gmail.com>
Subject: RE: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: from distraction back to actual psi

 

Dear Vinod ji,

Consciousness is an enigma. You enhance its enigmatic value by suggesting 
another layer ,cosmic consciousness (CC),  to it. The  properties of CC  
mentioned in your mail raise disturbing questions. Some questions are given 
below:

1.      If CC is ubiquitous like space, then do it and manifested version have  
 date of birth and in particular, do they precede, synchronize with, or follow 
the Big Bang singularity? 

Since the manifestation of CC requires organic matter of requisite 
specification, the organic matter has some special status. Who confers the 
special status? Is there any criterion in selecting the matter for special 
status? Why and How and related questions?  Special status is emblemishing or 
adding  Prapanch(प्रपंच )  to CC.

2.      What type of information about CC is contained in entities manifesting  
CC? Do different entities contain different aspects or amounts of information? 
Does it has any resemblance to spontaneous breakdown of symmetry?
3.      Why many properties of  the entities manifesting CC are not coupled 
with CC? Is the influence of CC limited to only a few properties? Can we 
identify these properties?
4.      Do you have any specific objections if we envisage that the role of CC 
is restricted  only to measuring processes as proposed by Henry Stapp? It will 
allow the manifestation of CC even in non-organic measuring instruments.

 

Finally, I noticed that you live in Noida and myself in Gurugram, can we meet 
to discuss these issues. My mobile: +91 8373970360 <tel:083739%2070360> 

 

Rajendra Bajpai

 

From: VINOD KUMAR SEHGAL <mailto:vinodsehgal1...@gmail.com> 
Sent: Monday, January 29, 2018 6:00 PM
To: Rajendra Bajpai <mailto:rpbaj...@gmail.com> 
Cc: Ram Lakhan Pandey Vimal <mailto:rlpvi...@yahoo.co.in> ; Vasavada, Kashyap V 
<mailto:vasav...@iupui.edu> ; Vivekanand Pandey Vimal 
<mailto:vvimald...@gmail.com> ; Paul Werbos <mailto:paul.wer...@gmail.com> ; 
Stanley A. KLEIN <mailto:skl...@berkeley.edu> ; Alex Hankey 
<mailto:alexhan...@gmail.com> ; Robert Boyer <mailto:rw.bo...@yahoo.com> ; 
Sungchul Ji <mailto:sji.confor...@gmail.com> ; sisir roy 
<mailto:sisir.sisir...@gmail.com> ; Siegfried Bleher <mailto:sble...@msn.com> ; 
BVKSastry(Gmail) <mailto:sastry....@gmail.com> ; Murty Hari 
<mailto:murty_h...@yahoo.com> ; BT APJ <mailto:alfredo.pere...@gmail.com> ; 
From the Chief Editor, J. Integr. Neurosci., IOS Press 
<mailto:poznan...@biomedical.utm.my> ; George Weissmann 
<mailto:georgew...@aol.com> ; G Srinivasan <mailto:gsvas...@gmail.com> ; 
Prateek Budhwar <mailto:p.budh...@gmail.com> 
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: from distraction back to actual psi

 

Dear Bajpaiji,

 

The way space is ubiquitous present in all entities similarly consciousness in 
its cosmic consciousness (CC) form is ubiquitous and present in all entities. 
However, despite being ubiquitous, consciousness from CC does not get 
identified with and manifests to the inert entities. For identification and 
manifestation to any entity, it should have the organic matter of some 
requisite specifications. It is on account of this that consciousness manifests 
and identifies with living organisms having the organic matter of required 
specification and arranged in some special configuration. In view of this, it 
is not correct to say that inert entities have the consciousness.

 

Vinod Sehgal

Noida

 

On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:27 PM, Rajendra Bajpai <rpbaj...@gmail.com> wrote:

I would like to share some selected incidents involving psi

1.      I met late Vimala Thakkar( Indian) only once with his disciple. She had 
been the president of theosophical society and was spiritual.   She agreed to 
talk about consciousness. We talked for nearly an hour and she replied to many 
questions that came to my mind but before I uttered these questions. She was 
talking about individual consciousness field of both living and non-living 
systems. I was sceptic about the consciousness in non-living systems. The 
interview came to an end because I lost my concentration and start thinking 
something else. She immediately sensed it and bade good bye. She also said that 
we may further discuss it IF we meet in future. We could not meet again. 
2.      I spent nearly a month with an Italian healer Renzo Celani. We were 
interested to find some measurable effects of psi.  I performed similar 
investigations with many other healers as well. I am mentioning Renzo because 
of his involvements in many experiments. 
 a. I measured spontaneous photon emission from his hands on many days also 
during his healing sessions. His emission was  well coordinated. The photo 
count distribution corresponded to the emission in  squeezed state. It was 
measured by squeezed state index (SSI) to be nearly 1 in most measurements. The 
SSI of a patient was  around 0.5 before the healing done in the dark room with 
mental processes by Renzo. During the healing SSI of the patient increased to 
0.85 and just after the healing the SSI of Renzo came down to around 0.65. A 
few hours after the healing, SSI of Renzo came back to 1 and of the patient to 
around 0.5.  I requested Renzo to repeat the healing session with a healthy 
person but no change in SSI occurred.
b. Renzo was talking about some connection with the patient and once offered be 
to connect with the Sun. A sensation passed through  my body as if I received a 
shock of electric current and he immediately said that he is disconnecting me 
as I could not tolerate.
c. I requested him to change the background noise of a sensitive photo 
multiplier(PMT). I was measuring noise every 10ms and a single effort of Renzo 
in decreasing background noise continued, at least, for few seconds . Renzo 
continued his efforts for two minutes. He repeated the experiment for  a few 
times. A large dip did appear in  some measurement of 10ms during the efforts 
of 2min. I could not discover any systematic pattern in the dips and further 
the dips  could be from statistical variations. Something like black swan 
events.
d. Renzo was also talking about some radiation/field emitted by material  
specific to species of the material. Renzo could identify the material from its 
radiation. The radiation emitted from a sample  was enhanced if the sample  was 
exposed to light for a few seconds. We tested the capability of Renzo in a 
sample chamber with 16 rotating sample holders. I put material in 16 sample 
holders and kept one holder empty. Alex Popp put these samples inside the 
chamber in some order, which he did not disclose. So nobody knew the contents 
of the sample holders. Each sample was exposed to white light for 10s and then 
no measurement was made of the delayed luminescence of the sample. The sample 
chamber was metallic and thick and did not allow any light or electric field 
emitted by the sample to come out. Even then, Renzo perceived the radiation 
from each sample but we did not. Renzo correctly identified 12 samples. He 
correctly identified the empty sample holder and samples of non-living 
material. 
3.      I measured the effect of blessing /healing on a lichen sample by 
Romanian healer and on leaves by an Indian healer.

Rajendra Bajpai

 

From: online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:online_sadhu_sanga@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Kushal Shah
Sent: Saturday, January 27, 2018 8:15 PM
To: Online_Sadhu_Sanga@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Sadhu Sanga] Re: from distraction back to actual psi

 

On Jan 27, 2018 3:03 PM, "Alex Hankey" <alexhan...@gmail.com> wrote:

Because anyone who continuously knew all the thoughts of others would be so 
deeply stressed and outraged by what they were picking up. Others thinking 
derogatory thoughts about them etc. 

 

That's actually true! This is why many people who develop these powers loose 
track of the spiritual process. And most genuine Gurus strictly tell their 
disciples to avoid such powers and surrender them as soon as they arise. Even 
most enlightened Gurus who have these powers are extremely careful and 
selective in using them. 

 

 

>From my side, I have once or twice sat in a meeting with His Holiness 
>Maharishi Mahesh Yogi, my teacher, during which I had a thought of 
>considerable value, relevant to the discussion, and listened to him repeat the 
>ideas contained in it very soon after I had the thought. Please Note: there is 
>no proof of the direction of transmission of the ideas - either of us might 
>have had the thought first, or else it might have arisen simultaneously in 
>both our minds. BUT Something was Definitely Occurring. 

 

Yes, that is a very common occurrence with many people. Not just with 
teacher-disciple, we find this even with our close relatives, friends and even 
scientific collaborators. When we share the same space with people we connect 
with emotionally or intellectually, a certain kind of spontaneous resonance can 
happen which leads to similar thoughts or even the same words coming out of the 
mouths of two different people.

 

I am not sure if a scientific explanation of these phenomenon is going to be 
possible, but it will be a great achievement if we can conclusively demonstrate 
that there is a non-physical dimension of this universe beyond the reach of 
objective measurement tools. We should perhaps also not expect the larger 
scientific community to accept such things. But can we at least convince 
ourselves and those who are willing to consider these possibilities?

 

Best,

Kushal.

 

_________________________________________
Kushal Shah @ EECS Dept, IISER Bhopal
 <http://home.iiserb.ac.in/~kushals> http://home.iiserb.ac.in/~kushals

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