[Winona Online Democracy] Hello All, I just finished reading The Poisonwood Bible by Barbara Kingsolver. She did a wonderful job of researching the last 40 years of the Congo, now Zaire, where the book is set. In the 1960's the white men brought voting to the villages in Africa. Previously decisions had been made by consensus- most had to agree on an issue for it to pass. This would involve a lot of "if you do this for me, I will do that for you" so that everyone felt they got something out of it. (It seems to me we do a lot of that too, but behind closed doors) Anyway, the elders do not like this "voting" for two reasons- one, an elder's vote counts the same as a young man's- "unacceptable, for what does a young man know?" And, if two votes are cast for something, and one against, then 1/3 of the people will be unhappy, and that is also unacceptable. I thought this interesting in light of our recent conversations. Kingsolver also goes into detail about the appalling history of the U.S. overthrowing several democratically elected leaders, throwing their countries into decades of civil war, but that's a subject for another discussion. Cherisa Templeton >From: Dwayne Voegeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: [Winona] Glen Schuman's Concern >Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 11:00:56 -0500 > >[Winona Online Democracy] > > > > > >Hello Glen and Others, > > > >Here is a quick response to your question about the possible difficulty >of > >voting in new ways. The response is one that someone else made in >response > >to the same issue: > > > >============= > > > >You get a ballot with all the candidates and you rank them 1 2 3. Votes >are > >transferred from the bottom up until someone gets over 50%. No political > >boundaries are changed. > > > >In short, it is very easy to understand, is geographically unthreatening, > >and clearly more fair and representative. > > > >Tallying is more complex than our present system, but it would be done by > >computers or improved machines. What the voter sees when he votes is > >simple. Just as most of us can drive a car, but have no idea how to > >overhaul it. > > > >========================= > > > >Some quick points to add. The mess in Florida is about the tiny details >of > >ballots. There seem to be a hundred ways to improve and standardize >those > >goofy ballots they use in Florida and some other places. > > > >What these other issues talk about are different, they are about deeper > >democratic ideals and improvements. > > > >People's votes are "counted" in elections but their "voices" are not >heard > >if there is no corresponding reflection of their wishes in the positions >of > >raw political power. > > > >You are right to point out that "winning" is much more than having more > >votes than someone else. At the same time, I fear that you underestimate > >the problems of our current system. > > > >Dwayne Voegeli > > > >===================== > > > >>From: "Glen & Diane Schumann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>To: "Winona Online Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>Subject: RE: [Winona] Different Ways To Vote > >>Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2000 08:51:37 -0600 > >>MIME-Version: 1.0 > >>X-Priority: 3 (Normal) > >>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > >>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 > >>Importance: Normal > >>Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Precedence: bulk > >> > >>Content-Type: text/plain > >>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by kranzmedia.com id > >>IAA08363 > >> > >>Given the difficulty some people in Florida have with what seems to me >to be > >>a not very complicated ballot, what confidence can we have that people >will > >>understand how to vote in a more complex system? > >> > >>In addition, why is it that some people seem to feel that if the person >they > >>happened to vote for does not win their vote has somehow not been heard? > Is > >>victory is the only acceptable alternative? > >> > >>Glen Schumann > >>Winona, MN > >> > >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >> > >>H: 507.454.3056 W: 507.453.3567 W FAX: 507.454.1440 > >> > >>Visit my Family Home Page: <http://www.hbci.com/~gschuman/home.htm> > >> > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Craig Brooks > >>Sent: Thursday, November 23, 2000 11:36 AM > >>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>Subject: Re: [Winona] Differant Ways To Vote > >> > >> > >>[Winona Online Democracy] > >> > >>The fact that Dwayne Voegeli and I brought up the same topic > >>independently at about the same time but from different sources would > >>seem to say this idea of a different way of voting is NOT just some > >>new weird science. Plurality voting is not a good way to make > >>important decisions. It is a fast way and a simple way. But given > >>what we are going through I suggest what at first appears to be simple > >>and fast is more complex and slow in the long run. I would rather > >>have a different way of voting that allowed me to feel more like my > >>voice is heard than our current system allows. > >> > >><(���)> > >> > >>---------------- > >>This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. > >>Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or >unsubscribe. > >>Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. > >>Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. > >>Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > >>Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:Glen Schumann.vcf 1 (TEXT/ttxt) >(000071BC) > > > > > > > >********************************************************** > > > >Dwayne and Denine Voegeli > > > >Social Studies and Science Teachers > >Winona Senior High School > >901 W. Gilmore Ave. > >Winona, MN 55987 USA > > > >Home Voice Mail: (507) 453-9012 > >School telephone number: (507) 454-9509 > > > >E-mail address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Personal Web Page: http://www.jarviscomputer.com/voegeli > > > >High School Web Site: http://wshs.luminet.net/ > > > >A Web Site About the City of Winona: http://winonanet.com/home.html > > > > > > > >"Education is not preparation for life, education is life itself." > > > > -- John Dewey > > > >*********************************************************** > > > > >---------------- >This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. >Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. >Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. >Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. >Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. 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