[Winona Online Democracy] First, I'm a bit obsessive about such things, so: It's "Fascism", not "Facism." I'm not rying to insult anyone but spelling errors on such things are just a personal pet peeve. The name refers to the Fasces, a bundle of sticks tied around a hammer that in the Roman empire denoted power. A representation of this artifact was the emblem of Mussolini's Fascist Party. (Interestingly enough, such an emblem is also found in the chamber of the Minnesota House of Representatives) If, however, there is a movement called "Facism" of which I am unaware, I retract my comment. My apologies; anyway: The spectral characterization of politics has always irritated me, because it presumes to judge what a person's position on an issue will be based upon their position on another, unrelated issue, and because of the many similarities between the extreme "left" and the extreme "right". (Both, for example, have expressed opposition to international "free trade" agreements, and both oppose gun control.) That a person opposes abortion would not seem to logically suggest that they support school vouchers, yet that association is made because of this country's ridiculous two-party political system that tries to force every school of thought into some place along the liberal-conservative gradient. I categorize myself as a "libertarian socialist," which some consider a contradiction based on conventional left-right assumptions, but I see no conflict between the two. As for socialism, one of the most bitter conflicts in the history of American politics was that between the Socialists and the Communists, but in contemporary America I suspect few could identify the differences between the two. In many cases, people throw around labels without understanding of what they actually mean. Just some unorganized thoughts. >From: "Duane M. Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Dwayne Voegeli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >CC: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [Winona] FOX Vanishing Freedom 2 -- May 19 and 20*** >Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 18:20:02 -0500 > >[Winona Online Democracy] > >I have been observing the dialogue between the two ends of the spectrum for >some time now. May I suggest that writers are far more convincing if they >will omit adjectives that are code word labels such as socialist or facist. >If you have a good point to make, it will be far more effective if you do >not label the opposing view with such an adjective. Remember that even >people with whom we disagree may have a good idea now and then. They >claimed that Musselini made the trains run on time. The City of Lanesboro >has a Publicly owned power system (a socialist idea from the 1920's.) We >should all discuss our ideas and allow them to be judged on the merit of >the >idea without trying to label it with a pejorative adjective. > >As a judge, I was very conscious of attorneys using such tactics in arguing >their cases. It did not happen very often (maybe because I reacted quickly >to such juvenile tactics). I needed to hear their legitimate points of >argument and how they would meet their opponent's points. Believe me, the >cogent argument that focused on the merits of a given point was much more >convincing. >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dwayne Voegeli <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2001 4:50 PM >Subject: [Winona] FOX Vanishing Freedom 2 -- May 19 and 20*** > > > > [Winona Online Democracy] > > > > Hello Chuck and Winona Online Democracy, > > > > Chuck, thank you for your clarifications and your diplomacy. > > > > Unfortunately, we have never met. But I can tell that you are a person >of > > dignity, patience, and one heck of a writer/thinker to boot. (Now, if >only > > a personal political evolution could take place.....) > > > > ;-> > > > > I wasn't throwing my own rhetorical land mines at you. Since we don't >know > > each other, I couldn't tell from your words if you were red baiting, > > smearing, or in any way trying to attach negative connations with >certain > > politcal labels. I know see it's more of a general observation. > > > > One thing I have noticed is how limited political discourse is in our > > mainstream media and culture. It's almost as if our media bandwidth is > > about 2 millimeters wide while the rest of the world enjoys a much >richer > > and wider set of perspectives when politics, history, and social issues >are > > talked about. > > > > I'm probably biased but I think we have the fundamentalist and > > ultraconservative views represeneted quite well in the media but we lack > > the other more progressive and social justice orientated views that >Europe > > and other countries hear in their political parties and media. In my >mind, > > the American media calls the 20 yard line the center of the political > > football field. > > > > It doesn't surprise me at all that the topics and political >persepectives > > of this listserve don't reflect mainstream media views. I don't think >the > > mainstream media reflects society at all. > > > > One more thing, if we are stuck with the old flat and two dimensional > > political sprectrum, we are stuck with the mindset of people always > > wobbling back and forth over a mythical center that does not exist. >That's > > why one of the central themes in the Greens movement is, "not right, not > > left, but forward." > > > > What might a better kind of political spectrum look like? A tornado, > > whirlpool, upward/downward spiral, meandering river channel, etc.? > > > > Dwayne the long winded, > > > > ============================= > > > > >Dwayne > > > > > >Not "squakers", it's "squawkers" - bears repeating. Thank you for >avoiding > > >the land mines. I was simply letting the List know that there are other > > >perspectives out here as well - more in tune with those of Paul Double >than > > >those most often displayed by the regular contributors to the List. > > > > > >On the continuum of socio-economic (and political) beliefs we, as US > > >citizens, are permitted - even encouraged - to hold and express, >facisim >and > > >socialism are commonly considered to be on opposite sides of the >"center". > > >Facism being far more polar on one end than socialism is on the other >end. > > >But, you know that, don't you. Speaking of rhetorical land mines; I >just > > >drove over one! > > > > > >Of course, my perspectives are no more facist than those I often see > > >expressed here are communist. The respective perspectives may be just a >shade > > >either way of "center" - not much different than we are seeing from our > > >Legislature of late. > > > > > > If you (in the plural) object to labels (and you might, with cause), I >do > > >apologize to anyone who may have been offended. > > > > > >Chuck Dillerud > > > > > > > > ---------------- > > This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. > > Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or >unsubscribe. > > Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. > > Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. > > Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > >---------------- >This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. >Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. >Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. >Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. >Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com ---------------- This message was posted to the Winona Online Democracy Project. Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe. Please sign all messages posted to this list with your actual name. Posting of commercial solicitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
