[Winona Online Democracy]
David and others- Please re-read my posting. I am asking that people share different views and opinions. If you don't like my opinion....great! Share yours....let others share theirs.....but in a respectful environment. I am asking the "readers" of this forum to become more involved in the process. I am asking that people be tolerant of different views and opinions so that others will feel free to express their views and opinions. Please don't criticize my spelling, grammar, or the way I may TYPE. Please don't talk down to me or at me. Talk to me. A portion of the mission statement for this forum is below: "It seeks to reawaken a spirit of more active participation in civic life and provide an environment in which learning and knowledge building can take place." If participants of this forum are ridiculed for their opinions and not shown respect, and they are then offended because of how others have treated them and then stop participating there isn't "active participation" in this forum. If the "environment" of this forum is non-conducive to the free exchange of ideas due to failing to respect each other, how can learning and knowledge building take place? When somebody is rude or intolerant of other's opinions or beliefs the point of the posting is lost and knowledge building won't take place. Such rude comments are only self serving. It makes the "picker" feel superior and the "pickee" violated and does nothing for the free exchange of ideas. I think some people hide behind their computer and think they are anonymous and are free to say what ever they please. Remember that you are required to sign your name, therefore, you are not anonymous. I also feel that if you are unable to say to a group of people what you have just posted..... then you shouldn't have posted it. "Treat people the way you would like to be treated" is the bottom line. Rodney King once said something to the effect "can't we all just get along?" Well, can't we? Chris Nelson ----- Original Message ----- From: "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Dan Dittmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 7:24 PM Subject: Re: [Winona] Show some respect! > > [Winona Online Democracy] > > > > On Sunday, November 18, 2001, at 02:53 , Chris Nelson wrote: > > I wish to thank Dwayne for publicly stating that he respects my > > opinion. So > > little respect is shown for those that have different views from the > > vocal > > norm in this forum. > > Simply, because someone does not make an effort to point out they are > not conveying disrespect you does not mean they are showing disrespect. > I always thought of myself as a pessimist with an optimistic bias but > the exact opposite is beginning to look like reality because I never > assume someone is showing disrespect for someone's opinion especially > when it is conveyed through an electronic form. > > My reasoning for never using the phrase, "respectfully disagree" amount > to: > 1) I believe people inherently recognize that fact. > > 2) G.W. Bush in his speech, after the Vermont Republican Senator > Jeffords saw the light and abandoned the Republican faith, Bush said > made a statement that I have which resembled, "I respectfully, > respectfully disagree with his decision." In my observation of the > speech, it seemed quite clear that he was not sincere about it and was > making the speech more as an effort to save face. Now when I hear that > phrase it strikes me as very insincere although the intent probably was > not. > > 3) I see the phrase as clutter. > > > When I joined this forum it had first come to life. Many different > > people > > would write in about local and state issues. Even though you might not > > have > > agreed with their opinion, most people understood that people were > > different > > and have different opinions and could respect that. Different opinions > > is > > what made this forum neat. > > Do you have access to their brain (even read only access)? No, you do > not have access to their brains. (Therefore the EOF is zero.) Since you > do not have access to their conscious state how can it be stated that it > was understood that others respected other views? How can one state this > has changed? I still see many divergent views present. > > Different opinions apparently are good but my impression of society on > opposing views amounts to, "Feel free to dissent as long as it is not > something I agree with." > > > Could the lack of respect be why there are so few "writers" and so many > > "readers" of this forum? Do you remember when the mayor and other city > > department heads would write in? Do you remember when so many "average > > Joes" like myself would write in? I personally know people that have > > stopped writing in because of written abuse they have taken from a few > > because their view or opinion was different from the 10-15 very vocal > > members of this forum. > > If I choose to ignore an issue because I simply do not have an interest > does that mean I do not care or am not interested? For example, earlier > this year a thread related to the middle school being used as an arts > related item popped up. Does the fact I posted one question about the > issue mean anything? Posting is not necessarily reflective of anything. > It could mean that I was interested in hearing what everyone else had to > say. Perhaps many issues that are popping up are those issues where > someone will defer to someone else for an opinion rather than > constructing their own view. > > Some of the posts the appear on this list do not contain the best > wording of phrases or spelling. I will occasionally make similar > mistakes even after going through and editing. The point? Critiquing the > posts from a literary standpoint are expressions of disrespect, but to > state that being opposed by someone else *is* conveying disrespect seems > to be stretch. When outlining a case point for point against something > is considered a sign of disrespect, I would like someone to explain this > constant "respect."(We have seen enough of the angry post debates, and > perhaps those are the reason people do not read the list rather than the > fact others will post opposing view points.) > > I am a member of a Macintosh User Group (MUG) that meets exclusively > online that has forums. The Forums have sixty-four registered members > (though the group has many more) and most of the time about six to ten > people do most of the posting. I also am a member of several technical > mailing lists and these also have a similar set of posters. For example, > one of these lists has about one thousand three hundred members and > averages fifty-five posts a day but seventy-five percent of the posts > are from a core group a fifteen to twenty posters. The other portions > come from fifteen percent outlining a problem and requesting a solution > and ten percent are lurkers that have a solution that the core group > did not outline before that person received their digest. As outlined it > is uncommon for most of the membership to submit. > > The assertion that it is due to abuse from the vocal crowd could very > easily be interpreted as a personal attack, and an expression of > disrespect though you claim to support respect a case could very easily > be made against that. Though I will not make such a case as I believe > that was not your true intent. > > > I'm done with my rant, kind of. > > > > I would like to respectfully disagree with Dwayne's assumption that I > > only > > get my news from TV. Do you monitor what I read? Do you get my mail? > > I do > > consider myself to be educated and read. I have several news groups > > bookmarked on my computer and get different weekly magazines. Do you > > think > > my different views and opinions could be due to different life > > experiences? > > Were my parents different from yours? Is your profession different than > > mine? Is your education different from mine? No need to answer > > because the > > answer is yes. Could that be why I have different views and opinions? > > Once > > again, yes. If every member of this forum held the same opinion and > > view on > > different subjects, wouldn't this be a boring place to be? It is > > because > > others have different opinions that make this forum what it is. But, > > if the > > lack of respect for different opinions continues, along with the > > personal > > attacks, this forum will have many more "readers" than it does now. > > I find it interesting that you ask Dwayne whether he monitors what you > read or observe but is assumed by your post that everyone who disagrees > with your material is expressing disrespect. Perhaps, how the text is > read is in question. When, (keyword) someone writes something to this or > another online communication method I have always assumed that the > person was not there to tick me off. Just my .02 but it looks to me as > if anyone who speaks up against anything is simply out there to pull > someone's chain but that is not the case 9.9999 x 10 ^ 2 percent of the > time. > > > Every time I click the send button I've already convinced myself to > > "hold > > onto my pants" because my views and opinions vary from others. I know > > that > > I will be taunted into a bigger debate and lectured as to why I'm wrong > > and > > they are right. I often find myself biting my tongue (in this case, > > fingers). I then find myself clicking the "delete" button and moving > > on. > > This forum is suppose to be fun and educational. Not stressful. If > > only > > others would do the same. > > Excuse me while I point this out, BUT, one paragraph up in you observed > it would be great to have more 'writers' than readers. Myself and > probably many others, refuse to be a member of a group where people make > statements like, "I like that" or "I dislike that." Complaining about > others explaining their viewpoints seems to advocate the shut up > mentality. It seems from my perch that your views are the only views > that count and others that write a viewpoint that is longer than your's > are considered to be lecturing you. Well guess what!! They are only > explaining why they disagree with you. To state that they are lecturing > you seems to be a blatant expression of disrespect. > > Unlike others I encounter I prefer to explain why I hold a particular > view. This often helps clear up misunderstanding to view this as > outright lecturing seems to be a symptom of one being unable to accept > other views. > > > I know that I have violated one of my simple rules. The K.I.S.S. rule > > of > > writing, so I will wrap it up. > > KISS? What? Care to elaborate, just a little? > Since you shared a writing tip I will share one of mine: Points before > personalities. > Using PBP gets more accomplished and is unlikely to provoke WWIII. > > > Here are a few of my favorite quotes: > > > > "if you have nothing nice to say about somebody, say nothing at all" > > author, > > my mom > > Well if that logic truly applies than perhaps why not examine history > for a brief moment. > > Great Depression > I have not eaten in days because I have no food, and the crops have all > died due to a huge drought. Expecting that person to find something > positive in that scenario is like expecting someone to take a plunge > off the interstate bridge, it is not going tpo happen unless the person > has a slightly altered mental state. > > It has never been the positives that have motivated people to greatness > but rather the negatives. Perhaps this is a reason that Al Gore lost the > election. Gore spent so much time preaching what was done with Clinton > at the helm and not enough time preaching about what could be better. If > one would notice bill Clinton's campaign speeches the improvement theme > underlies every aspect. > > > "it is easy to criticize your fellow man.............while sitting > > behind > > your computer" author, Chris Nelson > > Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... > > I am doubtful you would be willing to take several people on in person. > To state that a computer, one of the bst devices for promoting > communication ever, facilitates negativity ignores every good thing that > computers have accomplished. > > > I promise to be more tolerant of others and their views and opinions. > > Will > > YOU? > > Will you? Sometimes when I see that it often strikes me as someone > trying to convey something else. (BTW that is an observation about the > last fifty times I have observed that message conveyed.) > > > Chris Nelson > > David Dittmann > again I ask, what happened to "with liberty and justice for all," after > all those who speak the pledge agree to withholding that idea... or so I > thought. > > [ other posts snipped] > > --------------- > This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy > Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe > All messages sent to the list must be signed with your actual name. > Posting of commercial soliticitations is not allowed on this list. > Report problems or questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --------------- This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy Please visit http://onlinedemocracy.winona.org to subscribe or unsubscribe All messages sent to the list must be signed with your actual name. Posting of commercial soliticitations is not allowed on this list. Report problems or questions to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
