Hi Eric; I agree OOo4Kids and OOolight deserve a space in the forums, I was not aware about them but they are very interesting and it's the kind of things we really want to see stronger with an Apache Project.
Something to think about is if they deserve a special forum for themselves. You know children and seniors are rather special and sometimes vulnerable parts of the population and maybe a single, multilanguage, forum would serve them well. Just something to think. cheers, Pedro. --- On Fri, 8/5/11, eric b <[email protected]> wrote: > From: eric b <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: Migrating the web forums at user.services.openoffice.org to > Apache servers > To: [email protected] > Date: Friday, August 5, 2011, 7:22 AM > Hi Terry, > > Le 5 août 11 à 12:08, Terry Ellison a écrit : > > > On 05/08/11 08:10, eric b wrote: > >> > >> Le 5 août 11 à 03:12, Pedro Giffuni a écrit : > >> > >>> Yes, it will continue to be inclusive for all > OpenOffice derivatives. > >> > >> > >> So I'm still wondering why OOo4Kids and OOoLight > are yet not listed ... > >> > >> > > Eric, > > The short answer is no once has asked or the demand > isn't there -- yet. The long answer is slightly more > complex: > > > > > I tend to disagree with your short answer. > > > > > Historically and (possibly with some tweaks) going > forward, the people who make the policy decision on the > forums are the people who contribute to them. In a 100% > community run effort, IFAIK, this is the only formula that > will work. > > > > [...cut...] > > > > > > On the EN forum we run two closed sub-forums: one "EN > - Forum Issues > <http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewforum.php?f=69&sid=da1779e4dd6562bf9cbbc0efd49c1292>" > for discussing policy issues, and one "Site - Forum > Administration > <http://user.services.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewforum.php?f=84&sid=da1779e4dd6562bf9cbbc0efd49c1292>" > for wider admin issues. We do this in English, but > members opinions are weighted if they are representing an NL > consensus (e.g. our committers Zoltán Reizinger and > Kazunari Hirano represent the HU and JA communities). > > > Reading what you wrote, I now understand better why > OOo4Kids and OOoLight have no visibility in some countries. > > > > > Sorry BTW if you try to access these, but they are > closed so that we can be more frank amongst ourselves in > discussion. Each other NL forum has a closed Forum > Issues forum to manage its business. > > Policy issues are discussed here and it is the > consensus here that sets policy. So for example we had > a long debate on whether to support LibreOffice when the > Oracle view seemed to us to be hostile to this. Our > strong consensus was that in reality there is one OOo > community, and so it made sense to do so. > > > > > When I see OOo Community, I really do not understand the > selection > > EducOOo, has historicaly been created because of some > people blocking any initiative coming from the Education > Project (the same people migrated to TDF since). EducOOo > tries to act as an OpenOffice.org lab and provided several > improvements, who have been reversed/integrated into > OpenOffice.org (like Impress annotation mode, Equation > editor improvement and some other like some Linux ARM > optimization). > > Our main goal is to contribute back to OpenOffice.org. As > example, since several years, we trained a lot of students > around OpenOffice.org code, and our actions helped to make > OpenOffice.org enter in schools in France. > > And if you want to compare with other forks, there is (to > my knowledge) no code reversed by LibreOffice and NeoOffice > to OpenOffice.org. But that's apparently no problem : they > appear in your forums. > > So, there is something hurting me : OpenOffice.org forks > who do not reverse any code to OpenOffice.org ARE visible, > and OOo4Kids and OOoLight, aimed to reverse contributions > are not ? > > I hope you understand better my point of view now ... > > > > The issue about supporting any specific product, > however, is that you need enough active volunteers with > knowledge of the specific flavour to credibly offer > support. > > > Let's try a different approach: if the item exists on the > forums, there will be _de_facto_ a support ? (yet the > chicken egg issue .. ). > > OOo4Kids (and OOoLight) behavior is(are) very close to > OpenOffice.org, and we mostly hide things (what does not > avoid us to invent new features). To avoid being a > concurrent to OpenOffice.org, we removed Basic, and Java. > > and there is no problem to maintain and answer questions. > More: every added feature was the result of an > user-designer-developer interaction, and the logical of the > processus is easy to retrieve. See our wiki (http://wiki.ooo4kids.org) , and > look at the number of > times the pages have been acceeed if you prefer. > > + you could as well look at the code documentation : some > pages have been read more than 28, 000 times (without any > thank you, though :-/ ) and translated in several > locales. > > Some random examples : > > French, but extremely informative : > http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/IdeasAndSuggestions/fr > > Toolbars and user level : > http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/ToolbarsAndUserLevel > Password protected preferences : > http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/PasswordProtectedPreferences > Impress new cursors : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/AddNewCursors > > > As you can see, our role is far over the simple fork idea, > and we can explain a lot. > > > > > I don't think we've reached that threshold for > OOo4Kids and OOoLight yet. > > > Again, this is the typical chicken-egg issue : we are in > the situation where some people decide to hide our > existence, and claim nobody knows us afterwards. What I do > not accept. > > > Back to the topic, OOo4Kids is provided for MS Windows, Mac > OS and Linux, in 17 locales. There is even an OpenBSD > port (working well) and OOo4Kids alone is close to 1 million > of downloads (94% use windows, and 45% download the en-US > version) !! To be honest, these figures are > pessimistic, and the number of downloads is a lot more > in fact, but we limited them to be sure of what we say. > > We even provide a (non official) Debian repository, for > both OOoLight and OOo4Kids > > Please verify by yourself : http://download.ooo4kids.org and > http://download.ooolight.org > > > Following this success, we decided to create educoo.be, > educoo.it, educoo.es, educoo.no and some other (I don't have > all in mind, sorry) > > Note: we are searching some volunteers to manage > educoo.us and educoo.de (looks cyber squatted). > > > > > Regards, > Eric Bachard > > --qɔᴉɹə > Education Project: > http://wiki.services.openoffice.org/wiki/Education_Project > Projet OOo4Kids : http://wiki.ooo4kids.org/index.php/Main_Page > L'association EducOOo : http://www.educoo.org > Blog : http://eric.bachard.org/news > > > > > >
