On Aug 25, 2011, at 2:58 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
>
>
> On 08/25/2011 02:56 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>
>> On Aug 25, 2011, at 2:31 PM, Kay Schenk wrote:
>>
>>> Hi--
>>>
>>> I think I deleted lot of conversations in this thread and that is it a bit
>>> old, but see below...
>>>
>>> On 08/12/2011 10:25 AM, Dave Fisher wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 12, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> +1 on
>>>>>
>>>>> " I think the value of opening up that list to a broader range of
>>>>> contributors is worth the cost of the extra click."
>>>>>
>>>>> - Dennis
>>>>>
>>>>> In my experience editing a wiki and creating a patch are
>>>>> qualitatively and quantitatively different.
>>>>>
>>>>> Editing a wiki, especially one that is inviting (Media Wiki
>>>>> qualifies for me, others not so much), provides for discussion and
>>>>> has an important internet feature: disintermediation.
>>>>>
>>>>> The appeal of wikis (and forums too) is that it provides
>>>>> disintermediation on behalf of non-expert participation. And it
>>>>> has immediacy, something we must not undervalue. You don't get
>>>>> Wikipedia by a procedure that involves submitting patches. Not
>>>>> ever.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think every approach we assess here should be tested by how it
>>>>> invites greater participation. That does not mean we grant
>>>>> committer status to every bloke who knocks on the door, because
>>>>> that is about the provenance of the code base and the integrity of
>>>>> releases.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are amazing activities that benefit from end-user support,
>>>>> peer support, and developers contributing in visible ways that are
>>>>> not significant in terms of Apache licensing and issues around
>>>>> releases. But developers can provide perspective and transparency
>>>>> using the community playground too.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, for example, the main web site for the project needs to be
>>>>> non-user-edited for technical as well as policy reasons. Then one
>>>>> question would be how little can we have there in order to gain the
>>>>> contributions of non-developers/-committers in all of those places
>>>>> where they can shine -- and perhaps be(come) experts of another
>>>>> kind through those contributions.
>>>>>
>>>>> The proper question, for me, is not how much to have under
>>>>> committer control and PPMC-intermediation, but how little we can
>>>>> have without increased ceremony and technical barriers because of
>>>>> an over-riding consideration. Very little should trump open,
>>>>> casual participation.
>>>>
>>>> ++++1.
>>>>
>>>> On the wiki, a user may or may not have editing rights, but other
>>>> than that the wiki is designed to allow change.
>>>>
>>>> The whole html vs mdtext question that Kay has been raising is all
>>>> about how to work on the website in a most casual manner with the
>>>> least amount of "ceremony". One of the key advantages of the Apache
>>>> CMS is making it easy for Committers to modify content on the fly
>>>> also makes contribution comparatively more difficult for
>>>> non-committers. For non-commiters this means installing a whole
>>>> document build system.
>>>>
>>>> One approach could be to modify the Apache CMS web-gui to allow
>>>> non-committers to browse and make patches. I don't know how hard that
>>>> would be to do.
>>>>
>>>> A search box on the main site can point to google and can search both
>>>> the main site and the wiki.
>>>>
>>>> When we are ready to consider each OOo project site for conversion we
>>>> should send an email to ooo-dev to determine which way that site
>>>> should go - CMS or Wiki? We can label the thread with
>>>> "[www][${project}]". We can also ask for someone to step up and lead
>>>> the content conversion process for a project.
>>>
>>> hmmm...well generally I think this is a very good idea. Should we get
>>> together a list of the project heads and start this process now?
>>>
>>> I might also suggest that by some consensus we put together a lost of areas
>>> that we absolutely, positively DON'T want on the wiki for control reasons.
>>> I will happily work on a wiki page with these ideas.
>>
>> Will you be editing
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OOo-to-ASF-site-recommendation
>> , or starting a new page?
>>
>
> Well I had actually posted my OWN thoughts on this page (in the last column)--
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OpenOffice+Domains
>
> However, I could, of course, take out that last column (on the domains page)
> and recreate this whole table on the page you reference above and that way we
> could document findings (based on project lead responses) on the
> OOo-to-ASF-site-recommendation page.
>
> Should I do that?
Do what you planned on doing.
You asked a lot of questions on
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/OOo-to-ASF-site-recommendation
- do you have answers for some?
Regards,
Dave
>
>
>
>
>> Regards,
>> Dave
>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Dave
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message----- From: N�ir�n Plunkett
>>>>> [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 07:20 To:
>>>>> [email protected] Subject: Re: Making mailing lists
>>>>> useful (was Re: [Proposal])
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Rob Weir<[email protected]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm assuming that it is the new list subscriber that benefits
>>>>>> most from this. Existing subscribers will just follow the
>>>>>> conventions they observe being used on the list. Or do you
>>>>>> expect to regularly check the wiki to see what new subject tags
>>>>>> Simon has added?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it's highly unlikely that the new list subscriber will
>>>>> read this in either location; I think the people who are most
>>>>> likely to read it are those who've been on the list a few days, see
>>>>> that there are a few tags floating around, and that the volume of
>>>>> mail is hectic. (Yes, I know the static page says c. 57/day. I also
>>>>> know that most people have no concept of what that means as an
>>>>> addition to their normal mail flow.)
>>>>>
>>>>> I expect those people not to be sure what to look for or where, but
>>>>> I hope if they've seen a reasonably prominent mention on the static
>>>>> page saying "This is a high-volume mailing list. Please use clear,
>>>>> relevant subject lines, and consider using an appropriate tag for
>>>>> your mail. A list of tags is available at [link].", that they'll
>>>>> figure it out.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think the value of opening up that list to a broader range of
>>>>> contributors is worth the cost of the extra click.
>>>>>
>>>>> Noirin
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> MzK
>>>
>>> "Music expresses that which cannot be said and
>>> on which it is impossible to be silent."
>>> -- Victor Hugo
>>
>
> --
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MzK
>
> "Music expresses that which cannot be said and
> on which it is impossible to be silent."
> -- Victor Hugo
