Rob, What are you talking about? No one has objected to the creation of the test migration and the upgrades that Terry provided to satisfy Infrastructure. And how does one "veto" in a non-voting, non-lazy-consensus discussion. Use of +1,0,-1 to express a sentiment, as many of us do is one thing, but to regard your own -1 sentiment as a veto is really strange.
We are not live, but in a test location now (and it does not reflect the current state of the forums on OO.o, *ALL* of them). People should also stop thinking of the URL to the test system as agreement on the future home, URL-wise. We are discussing governance issues, as we should be. It was probably a mistake to have go-live outlooks without having dealt with governance and the OpenOffice.org migration end-game first. Also, timing of when the domains and the actual hosting is transferred matters in determining how and when to go live with these services under Apache infrastructure. That just means to me we are getting ahead of ourselves, as we evidently did by unilaterally transferring the Bugzilla and not looking at what breakage would have to be prepared. Terry already lamented the risk of not having a PM to work with. Terry is also very new here (but not on OpenOffice.org) and he is drawing on his real experience elsewhere. We were dying to bring him on board. Why is it only he has to suffer the learning curve? I am not clear how a PM role would be described under the Apache Way, but Project Management does not mean being the boss, but ensuring that all of the concrete dependencies are identified and being managed: accounted for and reconciled. It is about keeping reality, and understanding of risk, in existence. It is quite difficult for one individual to do development of any kind and be the PM at the same time. Some claim it is cognitively impossible. And of course many developers think it is unnecessary. Let's stop with the personal attributions (and I mean Terry in this too), and stop claiming anyone is ramming something down anybody's throat. We were really hot for some action in this area a month ago. Now we have the law of unintended consequences in spades. And, lest we forget, this is an incubator. - Dennis PS: I mistyped the quote unfortunately. For those who may not be aware of it: "No one ever EXPECTS the Spanish Inquisition." It is a famous line from a Monty Python production. There are others that could come in handy around here, from time-to-time. -----Original Message----- From: Rob Weir [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 10:26 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: What is needed for Support Forums to be fully integrated into the Apache OpenOffice.org project On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 12:33 PM, Terry Ellison <[email protected]> wrote: <snip> > You criticise me for whipping out a résumé then list off a far longer one of > your own accomplishments. The main point that I draw from this rather > comprehensive list is that few if any are relevant to the running of an > end-user support organisation in 10 languages which is the scope of this > discussion. You might have run a forum. Big deal. You know very little We're discussing support forums within this Apache project. That is something which the PPMC must come to a consensus on. [ ... ] My -1 is a veto on ramming this through without a concrete proposal that has been approved by the PPMC. I have substantive questions on how the forums would operate within an Apache project, and I've written these up. If there is eventually consensus from the forum volunteers to propose moving to Apache then I will be looking there for these questions to be addressed. -Rob
