Yes frankly I consider that a minor bump along the way. As drew pointed out the Volunteers wish to transfer their "ownership" of the forums to the ASF. I see no reason to gate host migration on that "transfer" being carried out in advance. I haven't seen any actual contracts (or confirmation by Oracle people) so I use quotes aroundthese items, but have no reason to doubttheir accuracy at this point.
And no it's not aggressive, it's what they *want*. Nobody's under any illusions that their current "ownership" of the forums will be maintained going forward. >________________________________ >From: Rob Weir <[email protected]> >To: [email protected] >Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 11:29 PM >Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Support forums > >On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 11:05 PM, Joe Schaefer <[email protected]> wrote: >> Not everything people do needs to be scrutinized >> to each PPMC member's satisfaction. If you do that >> without any concern for people's emotions you will >> wind up with more outcomes like this one. Some >> things are better left up to people with enough >> experience and expertise that minor organizational >> problems can be "finessed" effectively without >> major turmoil ensuing. Part of why I offered >> to mentor this project was to apply some of that >> expertise here, but I feel so far my time has largely >> been a wasted effort and am considering tossing >> in the towel myself as a result. >> > >The forum volunteers came out, declared that they had always been >independent of the OpenOffice project, that they had a separate >contractual agreement with Oracle to host the forums at OpenOffice.org >and that they owned the content. That was what they posted to the list >[1]. > >Do you really think at that point, after receiving that note, it would >be prudent to just move ahead with the migration? Is this really a >"minor organizational problem"? Their note looks more like a red >light than a green light to me. > >Right now, it looks like we're waiting for the forum volunteers >discuss among themselves and come back with a proposal. Do you, are >anyone else, have a counter proposal for what we should be doing? >Personally I don't think their note really gives us much freedom of >action. If we move forward with migration that would be quite >aggressive at this point, after their claim of ownership. > >-Rob > >[1] http://markmail.org/message/zozbslbelnjlqrlh > > >> >> >> >>>________________________________ >>>From: Rob Weir <[email protected]> >>>To: [email protected] >>>Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2011 10:52 PM >>>Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Support forums >>> >>>On Tue, Sep 6, 2011 at 8:25 PM, Joe Schaefer <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> Look Simon, while I obviously don't have the time nor >>>> the inclination to comment on every suggestion made on >>>> this list, all I've *ever* expected us to do with the >>>> forums is to just start hosting it on ASF gear. The >>>> only modifications infra wanted were with respect to >>>> bringing the codebase up to the latest available >>>> version(s). >>>> >>>> Frontloading this effort with a bunch of social and technical >>>> red tape servesneither the ASF nor the goals of the Apache >>>> Way, whichis supposed to involve gradual, evolutionary changes >>>> toboth communities and to code. Revolutions are not called >>>> for at this particular juncture; it's hard enough work >>>> to just move things over (both code-wise and community-wise) >>>> largely unchanged. >>>> >>> >>>Joe, no one is asking for a revolution. In fact I'm suggesting that >>>the forum volunteers taking their time and think this through >>>carefully before deciding. Others were urging swift action, that the >>>forums should be quickly integrated without any discussions at all. I >>>think that is the more revolutionary approach, bypassing PPMC >>>discussion and consensus building. >>> >>>If we saw eye to eye on the broad strokes of collaboration but >>>differed in the fine details, then I could see letting that work >>>itself out as the Podling worked toward graduation. But clearly the >>>gulf of expectations was too large in this case. We'll be close >>>enough when we are confident that the details can work themselves out >>>on the path to graduation. I think we're getting closer. You might >>>think we're already there, or we're always been there. That's your >>>opinion. Others may share it as well. But if everyone but me thought >>>that then we wouldn't be having this discussion, would we? Elephants >>>aside, I may be the most obnoxious person speaking these views, but >>>I'm far from the only one that thinks working out a common >>>understanding now makes sense. >>> >>>-Rob >>> >>> >>> > > >
