On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> wrote:
> Hi Dennis, > > I am under impression that the license for everything on OOo is PDL, yet > almost nothing fulfills the terms. > > Copyrights are with the Initial Writer. If I can find an Initial Writer I > will mark it - pretty much only in <META> tags although that is whose OOo > back in 2000/2002 created or changed the page or some lists in some places. > > As far as copyright where there is no identified Initial Writer should we: > > (1) Have no copyright. > (2) Put the ASF copyright in place. > (3) Put an Oracle copyright on it. > (4) Put an OpenOffice.org copyright on it. > > We can't do (3) we're not Oracle. We should stop doing (2). > > Unless there is an argument in one direction or another I'll do (1) by Lazy > Consensus. > > I recommend that as we replace pages with AOOo policies that we create > mdtext replacements as fresh files. > > On Sep 7, 2011, at 4:11 PM, Dennis E. Hamilton wrote: > > > Dave, > > > > It would seem that these (few, I believe we're told) can be handled the > same as unclear provenance anywhere in the code base and its dependencies. > > > > The ideal time to clean these up would be when the site is under the > OpenOffice.org domain name but actually hosted on Apache infrastructure. > That gives complete ability to make all of the adjustments that are needed, > including the numerous minor ones to connect to the Bugzilla, etc. > > > > I'm not clear how migration of the wiki is impacted, unless you mean the > proposed movement of material now on static web pages into the wiki? > > That is my concern. Kay will need to assure that we know which wiki pages > came in as "PDL" as I think they'll need to stay that way. > uh...well I am not sure AT ALL how to determine this esp the pages that are not English. Oh joy -- I'm not a good legal eagle. :( Somehow I have a feeling that when OpenOffice.org spec'd the PDL, we/they were just trying to use something convenient that was available in the public domain. Anyway, I'll take a look at the NL sites in the next day or so and see what I can determine. > > > > > Exactly where are you finding these PDL license notices? The first one I > found was on the "Open Office.org 3 Installation Guide", a PDF (or ODT) > reachable from <http://download.openoffice.org/common/instructions.html>. > If we *don't touch it* can't it be retained until a permissively-licenses > alternative is needed? I don't see a reason to be concerned that the > authors/contributors did not properly execute the instructions of the > license they have offered. > > That's not the concern, the concern is if StarOffice, Sun, and/or Oracle > lost the paperwork. I suppose should we be presented with a copy of the PDL > from an Initial Writer then we fix the issue. > > Regards, > Dave > > > > > - Dennis > > > > RELAXED RETAIN, SUPPLEMENT, AND REPLACE SCENARIO > > > > If the notices are always in standalone documents such as the > Installation Guide, I don't see any problem making them available the same > way they are now. They should simply be left intact. They can be replaced > by non-derivative replacements later, when there are Apache OOo releases > that require different information. I don't see why we have to hurry. > Instructions for existing releases remain valuable to keep around. I > suggest preserving them right where they are, where people expect to find > them. > > > > When there are releases from Apache OOo, supplementary documents could be > offered. That would be another way to provide specific information > applicable to later releases. I see considerable time before these > PDL-licensed documents need to be supplanted. They might be retained for a > very long time. > > > > > > - Dennis > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dave Fisher [mailto:dave2w...@comcast.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 14:33 > > To: ooo-dev@incubator.apache.org > > Subject: Re: Concerns about all PDL website material > > > > > > On Sep 7, 2011, at 2:16 PM, Rob Weir wrote: > > > >> On Wed, Sep 7, 2011 at 4:44 PM, Dave Fisher <dave2w...@comcast.net> > wrote: > >>> I am stuck on a licensing issue with the OpenOffice.org website and I > begin to doubt if can do much with it other than rehost and correct obvious > changes in policy. > >>> > >>> Please look at http://www.openoffice.org/licenses/PDL.html > >>> > >>> (Whether the PDL is category A for Apache is a follow up, but there is > no point without resolving the following.) > >>> > >>> Specifically look at: > >>> > >>>> Required Notices. > >>>> You must duplicate the notice in the Appendix in each file of the > Documentation. If it is not possible to put such notice in a particular > Documentation file due to its structure, then You must include such notice > in a location (such as a relevant directory) where a reader would be likely > to look for such a notice, for example, via a hyperlink in each file of the > Documentation that takes the reader to a page that describes the origin and > ownership of the Documentation. If You created one or more Modification(s) > You may add your name as a Contributor to the notice described in the > Appendix. > >>>> You must also duplicate this License in any Documentation file (or > with a hyperlink in each file of the Documentation) where You describe > recipients' rights or ownership rights. > >>>> > >>> > >>> and > >>> > >>>> Appendix > >>>> Public Documentation License Notice > >>>> The contents of this Documentation are subject to the Public > Documentation License Version 1.0 (the "License"); you may only use this > Documentation if you comply with the terms of this License. A copy of the > License is available at __________________[Insert hyperlink]. > >>>> The Original Documentation is _________________. The Initial Writer of > the Original Documentation is ___________ Copyright (C)_________[Insert > year(s)]. All Rights Reserved. (Initial Writer > contact(s):________________[Insert hyperlink/alias]). > >>>> Contributor(s): ______________________________________. > >>>> Portions created by ______ are Copyright (C)_________[Insert year(s)]. > All Rights Reserved. (Contributor contact(s):________________[Insert > hyperlink/alias]). > >>>> NOTE: The text of this Appendix may differ slightly from the text of > the notices in the files of the Original Documentation. You should use the > text of this Appendixrather than the text found in the Original > Documentation for Your Modifications. > >>> > >> > >> Does it ever actually require that someone fill in the blanks in the > >> Appendix? I see that it requires one to duplicate the notice in the > >> appendix. And it permits (but does not require) initial writers and > >> contributors to add their names to the Appendix. > > > > If no one seems to ever provide this information then what can we assume? > If there is no Initial Writer then who holds the copyright? Where's the > paperwork? Where does that leave us? Square one on the website and anything > derived from PDL? > > > > Regards, > > Dave > > > >> > >>> I can find no answer to the question about who are the initial writers > and further contributors are for all most all web pages. There are some that > have meta tags, but that is not following the terms. > >>> > >>> Can anyone provide help here? Do most pages have an "INitial Writer" > and "Contributor" of Oracle Corporation? > >>> > >>> Would we need to see if the archives from prior to the kenai migration > have enough history to determine "Initial Writers" and "Contributors"? > >>> > >>> Where are these appendices? > >>> > >>> I don't see any point in working on the OOo website or transfers to > MWiki or CWiki without clarification. > >>> > >>> Regards, > >>> Dave > > > > -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MzK "There's something about the sound of a train that's very romantic and nostalgic and hopeful." -- Paul Simon
