On Wed, Oct 19, 2011 at 4:11 PM, Andrea Pescetti <[email protected]> wrote: > On 17/10/2011 Rob Weir wrote: >> >> I'm making a proposal now to shut down the legacy OOo mailing lists >> and direct the existing subscribers to one of the AOOo mailing lists. >> I realize that this is not the solution that many of us would prefer, >> but I believe that it is the best way forward that anyone is willing >> to volunteer to lead. Please delight me by proving me wrong on this > > I find the plan well-thought and I agree it is vital to act before the > existing infrastructure is abandoned, but I propose to make some changes and > I volunteer to lead this alternative migration at least for the 12 mailing > lists on the it.openoffice.org domain. See below for details. >
Great. I welcome the offer of help. Let's coordinate on the wiki. >> 1) Make a list of all public legacy OOo mailing lists that have >> received at least 5 non-spam email in 2011. >> 2) Publish that list on the wiki, along with : >> a) the language predominately spoken on the list, if not English >> b) the recommended AOOo list that existing subscribers should be pointed >> to. > > Perfect. Actually, I remember I already provided this information on a wiki > page with the "top lists" you created some weeks ago. > I plan on refreshing that list for this effort. So expect updated data. >> 3) I will then draft, in English, a post to be send to the above >> lists. The post will talk about the overall effort of the migration >> to Apache, the specific migration of the mailing lists, and invite the >> subscribers to stay informed and to participate in the new Apache >> lists. Information on how to subscribe will be provided. A shutdown >> date, for the legacy lists will be included, two weeks from the >> posting date. > > The fundamental difference is here: the N-L mailing lists (including the > Italian ones) mostly target end users. We shouldn't put any burden on them > or expect them to be able to follow processes and confirmation e-mails in > other languages. > We should do some tests to see if we can eliminate the technical requirement for a confirmation. List moderators can subscribe users. But I'm not sure if that triggers a confirmation email to them or not. But this is easy to test. > And (this is a vital detail) we should give a message of continuity, not of > disruption. We (in this context, i.e., Italian end-users mailing lists) > shouldn't communicate in a way that implies that the old OpenOffice.org is > dead and that a new OpenOffice.org is born, since the product our users will > be talking about in the mailing lists is still the "old" OpenOffice.org, and > the fact that the new home is at Apache is not a fundamental difference to > them; they will continue using the product and taking care, when the time > comes, of localization and QA; we would scare users and contributors away by > describing an "old/dead" OpenOffice.org. > I agree. In many cases this will be the first official message that the Apache project has given to the lists. It is long overdue. We need to make sure it is a good message. I do not plan on sending any message before it is reviewed here on ooo-dev. > I would turn the post you describe into a warning that the mailing list > address will change, including all information about Apache but not > requiring users to take action. I volunteer to consolidate the 12 lists into > 3 and to subscribe users to the right ones (of course, being "project owner" > of it.openoffice.org, I have a list of all subscribers to the 12 lists). > Let's map this out on the wiki, to see exactly what new lists we need. > One can find flaws in this process since, from a technical point of view, we > are mass-subscribing users; but remember that this is just a migration. I > read your remarks in other threads, but we don't risk to help spammers this > way (there is no spam on the 12 lists I monitor) and it would be a suicidal > move for OpenOffice.org to shut down mailing lists and leave the majority of > users in a position where they can say "OpenOffice.org is dead, to the point > that even the peer-support mailing lists have been shut down". > >> 4) I will invite volunteers to translate the draft post into other >> languages. >> 5) I, and whatever volunteers wish to help, will send the posts to the >> lists. >> 6) The note will be repeated a week later. > > OK about this. > >> 7) After two weeks we request via Oracle that the Kenai admins close >> the lists, per: >> http://kenai.com/projects/help/pages/ManageProject#MailingLists > > I would change this into a one-month period in which the old addresses still > work but just as forwarders to the new (remapped) lists, followed by a > silent closure of the old addresses. > I don;t think we want to set up forwarders for just two weeks. At least I'm not volunteering to do that. But I am happy to extend the period between initial notification and shutdown. We could even repeat the notification and migration instructions. > Regards, > Andrea. >
