On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Andrew Rist <andrew.r...@oracle.com> wrote: > > > On 10/25/2011 2:43 PM, Rob Weir wrote: >> >> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 5:36 PM, Kay Schenk<kay.sch...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> On Tue, Oct 25, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Rob Weir<robw...@apache.org> wrote: >>> >>>> A quick summary of where we are, in case you haven't been following >>>> the previous threads. >>>> >>>> Information on the top 100 legacy mailing lists is on the wiki [1]. >>>> A draft note that will be sent to these lists is an another page [2]. >>>> >>>> If you note in that first page, the "Migration Owner" column is blank. >>>> So either I need to quickly learn French, Dutch and Japanese, or I >>>> need some help here. >>>> >>>> Volunteers would translate the note, send it to the relevant NL lists, >>>> and be available on those lists to answer any migration-related >>>> questions. Ideally you would already be a participant on the lists >>>> and familiar to that community. >>>> >>>> As for staging, I'd recommend that we do not do this all at once. >>>> Migrating 100 lists at once would be very messy. But we can easily >>>> break this down into related groups of lists and do the migration over >>>> a few weeks. One possible staging would be: >>>> >>>> 1) All the lists that will be merged into the new ooo-marketing list. >>>> This will help jump start that lists important work, and bring >>>> community members into the discussion who might not have been >>>> interested in the other topics we've been discussing on ooo-dev. >>>> >>>> 2) All of the lists that will be merged into ooo-dev >>>> >>>> 3) All of the lists that will be merged into ooo-users >>>> >>>> 4) NL lists (which could be done in parallel with the above. However, >>>> they will require some discussion and admin work to create new >>>> ooo-lang lists,) >>>> >>>> The thought behind this staging is that we "work out the kinks" with >>>> the more technical and (hopefully) more forgiving project lists, >>>> before moving on to the user and NL lists. We can adjust the >>>> instructions and messaging based on what we learn from the initial >>>> migrations. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> -Rob >>>> >>>> >>> Have the "new" NL lists been setup already? I may have missed that and I >>> haven't look at any jira tix. >>> >> No NL lists yet, except for Japanese. We need moderator volunteers >> before we can request them. >> >> Process for getting a new mailing list created is here: >> >> http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#new-mailing-list >> >> Probably makes sense to start with the largest NL communities first? > > Have we considered having a list for 'un-represented languages'? > If a user does not find their language, where do they go? Posting to the > English list or ooo-dev in another language is frowned on. > This is a bootstrapping question. > Where can a community go to say that they exist, have a need, and would like > to create a list. >
There are some words of wisdom in the Committer's FAQ [1] regarding user lists: "WARNING: the creation of a user mail list can be a very dangerous thing for a community if the developers don't pay attention to their users and if users don't have developers that reply to their emails. Sure, active developers should expect a well behaving user community to reply to one another for simple questions, but this doesn't happen overnight and the creation of a user mail list alone can turn into a very harmful change." So I think we would want to consider on each request whether we have sufficient interest to have a self-supporting user support community. Having an existing committer who speaks the language is great. Having a number of power users is also good. But having users asking questions and getting no answers --- that would reflect poorly on the project. That said, I have absolutely no idea how would determine this for a new list. For existing lists I think we can look at the archives and see how much traffic they are getting, whether questions are being answered, etc. But if someone requests a Klingon list, how do we know if there is a sufficient community behind it? As for where to ask, I think that is ooo-dev by default, and the request would need to be made in English or some other language that we can figure out how to translate. [1]: http://www.apache.org/dev/committers.html#new-mailing-list I think that would be ooo-dev, in a language that ooo-dev is essentially the central list for the project, in terms of announcements, posting project-wide proposals, etc. > I understand we don't want to create dead lists, and don't want to create a > list that cannot be self sustainable, > but it seems like there is a gap here for bringing in new communities. >> >>>> [1] https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Mailing+lists >>>> [2] >>>> >>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/OOOUSERS/Email+Migration+Post >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> MzK >>> >>> "This is no social crisis >>> Just another tricky day for you." >>> -- "Tricky Day", the Who >>> > > -- > > Andrew Rist | Interoperability Architect > OracleCorporate Architecture Group > Redwood Shores, CA | 650.506.9847 > >
