On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 7:43 AM, Jürgen Schmidt <jogischm...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 9/25/12 1:10 PM, Rob Weir wrote: >> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 6:42 AM, Ross Gardler >> <rgard...@opendirective.com> wrote: >>> On 25 September 2012 11:22, Rob Weir <robw...@apache.org> wrote: >>>> On Tue, Sep 25, 2012 at 3:40 AM, Ian Lynch <ianrly...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> On 25 September 2012 06:15, imacat <ima...@mail.imacat.idv.tw> wrote: >>>>>> I feel honored to be listed. I would like to help PMC if there is a >>>>>> chance. >>>>>> >>>>>> In any case, I suggest at least one female should be included in the >>>>>> PMC, to encourage the contribution of females in the community and bring >>>>>> diverse voices in PMC. It is very important to encourage more and more >>>>>> female contributors to join the community, and make them feel that >>>>>> OpenOffice is theirs', not of some male geeks. >>>>> >>>>> +1 broad representation is important. >>>>> >>>> >>>> IMHO this is a bad idea and if we go down this route it demonstrates >>>> that we do not understand The Apache Way. >>> >>> I don't think the idea of actively seeking broad representation is >>> necessarily counter to the Apache Way. It depends on exactly how that >>> representation is achieved. >>> >> >> Perhaps you missed my last paragraph where I talked specifically about >> seeking broad participation? >> >> The issue is not diversity. In fact Roy has stated quite bluntly that >> diversity in itself is not an issue with graduation. The issue is >> thinking of the PMC as a representative body, where participants >> "represent" some finer grained constituency and where the composition >> of the PMC is optimized to someone's view of what a proper >> distribution is, rather then on merit. If it is wrong for someone to >> claim to "represent IBM" then it is equally wrong for someone to claim >> to "represent Asian women". We participate as individuals. >> >> IMHO we should be hearing the word "representation" a lot less when >> describing the PMC. It *is not* a representative body. Individuals >> participate based on their own merit, not as representatives of some >> other group of interest. We underestimate how radically different a >> meritocracy is if we do not grok this distinction. >> >> Or maybe you and Ian are using the word "representation" in some loose way? >> >> To note: the legacy OpenOffice.org project was representative, and >> some may be reverting to that mental model, of governance that had >> fixed set aside seats for specific representation, e.g., one person >> from the Calc project, one person from the NCL, one seat set aside for >> Sun, etc. >> >>>> The PMC *is not* representative. The PMC is inclusive of *all that >>>> show merit* for the things that the PMC is responsible for. To have a >>>> PMC based on representation suggests that members are included for >>>> things other than merit, or that other potential members are excluded >>>> based on representation concerns regardless of their demonstrated >>>> merit. Both are wrong. >>> >>> I agree both are wrong. >>> >>> On the other hand I really hope that Imacat and others seek to address >>> the issue of >>> inclusion of all. Such work is, in itself, worthy of merit yet is >>> often not recognised as such in software projects like those here in >>> the ASF. >>> >> >> Inclusion != a representative PMC. Inclusion is about recruitment and >> ensuring that all merit is recognized. It is not about quotas. > > I believe that we are all on the same track here more or less and I hope > that we don't destroy this ongoing discussion on a PMC roster with too > much nit-picking.
Thanks for the reminder. I've said all I wanted to say on this topic. I'm done. Onward and upward! -Rob > The OpenOffice community had always a broader community and we welcome > anybody as community member, as committer or as PMC member over time. We > are open in all directions and the most important thing is that we drive > things forward and don't stand idle. > > In the end we are mainly a software project. No software product means > no project, no community, no committers, no PMC. And we are trying to > address everything related to our project. > > So please let us continue to work and finish the things that are > necessary to move forward. And any effort to grow in whatever direction > is welcome. Simply start doing it and ideally talk and report about it > that others have the chance to recognize it. I am a software developer, > believe that I can motivate people in a community, can spread my > knowledge about certain things but I am not a clairvoyant (as many > others as well). So visibility of what you are doing is somewhat > necessary to get recognition. > > Juergen > > > > >
