>
> what Erich et.al. think about this

Rony, I use what we have now.  Finishing content additions, changes, and
fixes for a 5.0 release is my priority.

On Wed, Jun 17, 2015 at 10:54 PM, Rony G. Flatscher <[email protected]
> wrote:

>  Hi Jean-Louis,
>
> thank you for your feedback and your interesting information! I see that
> you have also "diary.txt" that document what you have done and how the
> development has gone on.
>
> On 16.06.2015 23:10, Jean-Louis Faucher wrote:
>
>  The graphical syntax diagrams were generated by parsing the ascii syntax
> diagrams
> and generating a DITA representation.
> http://docs.oasis-open.org/dita/v1.1/OS/langspec/langref/syntaxdiagram.html
>
>  Since the ascii syntax diagrams have been removed, this approach is no
> longer
> possible. Editing the DITA representation manually would be too tedious.
> It should be possible to generate a DITA representation from an ebnf file,
> but I lack of motivation to work on that.
>
>  The tool is here :
> http://svn.code.sf.net/p/oorexx/code-0/incubator/DocMusings
>
>  Example of DITA representation :
> railroad/declarations.xml
>
>  The tool which generates the SVG from the DITA representation :
> railroad/syntaxdiagram2svg/
> Adapted from a DITA plugin, this is a mix of XSLT, JavaScript and CSS.
> Regarding the graphical notation, I have no idea if it would be easy to
> remove the arrows.
>
> Maybe it is worthwhile to look into the student's work as it would allow
> to define the EBNFs including optionality and default values. I am not sure
> (will have to look into his work), but I think he used the DITA XML
> encoding too. (In any case his scripts create the old ASCII syntax diagrams
> from the EBNF, so it would be possible to have those ASCII syntax diagrams
> created, if needed.)
>
> Ad DITA rail diagram generation: this will have to be researched too, but
> given, that this is an opensource, professional tool for creating technical
> documentation (and render it to all kind of formats), I would be
> optimistic, that it can be customized and e.g. remove the arrows (which I
> like very much, BTW, as people who rarely are exposed to raildiagrams will
> intuitively see how they can and should be read) should that be really
> necessary.
>
> But before doing any further work in this corner, it would be necessary to
> first assess the current situation, where syntactically incorrect
> raildiagrams get created. Then we could discuss how to best move on to
> arrive at syntactically correct diagrams as efficiently as possible.
>
> So, the question would be, what Erich et.al. think about this and how to
> best proceed?
>
> ---rony
>
>
>
>
> 2015-06-16 17:36 GMT+02:00 Rony G. Flatscher <[email protected]>:
>
>> Hi Chip,
>>
>> AFAIK Jean-Louis was able to define most, if not all aspects of rendering
>> to graphical rail
>> diagrams, be it stroke intensities, arrows, fonts and the like. Hoping,
>> that Jean-Louis can shed
>> some light about the infrastructure he has used and his assessment how
>> difficult/easy it is to set
>> up the environment for creating grammatically, nice looking svg graphics.
>>
>> ---rony
>>
>> P.S.: One remark ad renderings and correctness: in JLF's rendering the
>> semi-colon could (should?) be
>> defined to be the default value and optional.
>>
>>
>> On 15.06.2015 15:06, Chip Davis wrote:
>> > We all can agree that the existing ASCII-art rail diagrams are
>> > unacceptable, from both an esthetic and information-transfer
>> > standpoint.  We must adopt an alternative.
>> >
>> > While Jean-Louis' renderings are much better, they suffer from the
>> > visual clutter of unnecessary arrowheads.  The flow through a rail
>> > diagram is left-to-right except for a repetition of a term, which in
>> > ASCII-art required a back-arrow (e.g. MIN) to distinguish it from a
>> > default value.
>> >
>> > Erich's arrow-free diagrams accomplish this distinction with curved
>> > lines.  J-L's approach uses the same curved lines but inserts multiple
>> > arrowheads which add nothing but visual clutter.
>> >
>> > I very much prefer the clean renderings of Erich's approach because it
>> > has no internal arrowheads at all.  Also, it has the ability to use
>> > bold fonts, which is useful to denote a value taken as a constant.
>> >
>> > Regardless of the tool eventually adopted, we really must go back
>> > through the diagrams and verify their accuracy.  I happened to notice
>> > that the diagrams differ in their depictions of Overlay() and I'm not
>> > sure either one is totally correct.
>> >
>> > It must be noted that Erich's RexxRef5 file is only 6 Meg whereas the
>> > JLF RexxRef4.2 is not quite twice as large.  I doubt all those extra
>> > arrowheads made that much difference, but it's worth comparing the
>> > size of the two approaches within the same document.
>> >
>> > -Chip-
>> >
>> > On 6/14/2015 11:55 AM, Rony G. Flatscher wrote:
>> >> The syntax rail-diagrams that currently get created are wrong in the
>> >> areas, where there are optional arguments. The optional arguments are
>> >> not identifiable and it is not clear what the default values would be,
>> >> if an optional value is left out.
>> >>
>> >> This is probably due to a limitation in the rail-diagram tool that is
>> >> being used, which I understand is some service on the WWW which has
>> >> these limitations. Judging from studying the thread that David Ashley
>> >> started (2014-07-31, 17:57)
>> >> <https://sourceforge.net/p/oorexx/mailman/message/32669824/> until the
>> >> last post where this shortcoming was pointed out, without any further
>> >> feedback by David Ashley:
>> >> <https://sourceforge.net/p/oorexx/mailman/message/32699294/>
>> >> (2014-08-09, 18:32, by J. Leslie Turriff).
>> >>
>> >> ---
>> >>
>> >> Not all developers may be aware, that years before that Jean-Louis has
>> >> suggested svn-syntax-rail-diagrams to replace the (rather ugly)
>> >> ASCII-syntax-rail-diagrams already. He not only suggested it but did
>> >> all the necessary work and came up with beautiful PDFs and HTMLs
>> >> renderings that include syntax rail-diagrams that are able to document
>> >> optional arguments and default values. Unfortunately (and for no
>> >> apparent reasons that I am aware of), years ago, his hard work was not
>> >> picked up and put into production for the ooRexx distributions.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe it is worthwhile at this point of development to take a look at
>> >> the different presentations of syntax-rail-diagrams,
>> >>
>> >>   * rendered as ASCII-snytax-rail-diagrams (just load the ooRexx 4.2.0
>> >>     rexxref.pdf from your ooRexx installation),
>> >>   * the current 5.0 rexxref.pdf rendering (thanks to Erich in his
>> >>     svn-sandbox, 'sandbox/erich/docs/build' which one gets when
>> >>     checking out the ooRexx project with svn) at
>> >>     <
>> https://sourceforge.net/p/oorexx/code-0/HEAD/tarball?path=/sandbox/erich/docs/build
>> >
>> >>     named "rexxref5.pdf" and
>> >>   * the ooRexx 4.2.0 rexxref.pdf by Jean-Louis at
>> >>     <
>> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/20049088/oorexx/docs/trunk/index.html
>> >.
>> >>
>> >> You can find all three versions of the PDF-documentation at
>> >> <http://wi.wu.ac.at/rgf/rexx/tmp/docs.tmp/> so it is easier for you to
>> >> load and compare them (listed in the same order is above):
>> >>
>> >>   * ooRexx 4.2.0 official ASCII-syntax-rail-diagrams:
>> >>     <http://wi.wu.ac.at/rgf/rexx/tmp/docs.tmp/rexxref.pdf>,
>> >>   * ooRexx 5.0.0, Erich's preliminary rendering
>> >>     <http://wi.wu.ac.at/rgf/rexx/tmp/docs.tmp/rexxref5.pdf>,
>> >>   * ooRexx 4.2.0, Jean Louis's renderings:
>> >>     <http://wi.wu.ac.at/rgf/rexx/tmp/docs.tmp/rexxref4.2-jlf.pdf>.
>> >>
>> >> Then in all three versions go to chapter "Functions -> Built-in
>> >> Functions -> Stream" and compare the syntax rail-diagrams of the
>> >> three, and I think you will see for yourself, why I suggest to go with
>> >> Jean-Louis' solution for creating correct and still very nice looking
>> >> syntax rail-diagrams for the project.
>> >>
>> >> ---rony
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>
>
>
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