Here's my thought: Spend your 5 start-up hours either re-installing or upgrading your Debian system to squeeze (the current debian stable). Try doing 'apt-get install openafs-fileserver', and then, if it works, please edit https://bitbucket.org/dahozer/tfs/wiki/Home saying so, or if it does not, create an issue: https://bitbucket.org/dahozer/tfs/issues/new
Also, spend a few minutes looking at time tracking tools (maybe one from http://lifehacker.com/5362829/five-best-time+tracking-applications or try http://rescuetime.com ), and let's see what you actually spend. If you can spend 2-4 hours a week installing a weekly build on both a debian linux server, and a client on a MacOS X laptop, and then occasionally try accessing your server and using disconnected operation, my personal opinion is that's a huge benefit. (Yes, I'm hand-waving over some things like needing multiple DB servers and kerberos right now.. we'll get to that next week, or I'll just create a principal for you on my HOZED.ORG realm) I'd also like to ask the openafs-info list if it would be appropriate to create a 'openafs-test' list so we can have a more focused discussion. Some more technical in the weeds stuff: Can you leave your debian box powered on, with a real ip, or is it behind a NAT? My server has a real IP that might change, so I have some VPN tunnels to a 'cloud' virtual private server with a static IP. I can probably explain how to set up OpenVPN, but I got irritated enough setting that up that I'd rather spend time setting up IPv6 tunnels and hacking on v6 support for AFS than dealing with certificate creation again. I think the biggest reason I'm leading a crusade for IPv6 support is that I have a use case a lot like Doug, and if I can get v6 support with fully krb5 authenticated/encrypted transports, then I can forget about ever having to utter the word 'vpn' or create another damn openssl cert ever again. If, for some reason, I *do* have to mess around with ssl, I'll have the directions and documentation and all my certs in my globally accessible (and protected) AFS directory, so I can find it. On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 11:21:33PM -0700, Doug Hirsch wrote: > Troy, > > I'm unclear I've offered you anything you can actually use. Mostly, > I'm offering you the reality check of a non-programmer, a Macbook with > me on the road and a stale Debian box powered down back at home. > You'll have to steer me through downloading, installing and using > anything that's not on a stock Mac running Mac OS 10.6.8, or bringing > the Linux box up to whatever environment you want once I get home. > Most of my other machines run Windows, although I have a couple of G4 > Mac mini's hanging around for fun. Your average college student will > not have much more to offer you, so I'm offering a chance for you to > define what you could actually accomplish harnessing thousands of us > "amicable zombies" with limited time, experience and resources. If it > will help, I'm willing to install some virtualization package on the > Macbook, but will need guidance. I also need to keep a lid on my time > commitment, so assume no more than 5 hours a week from me, with an > extra 5 hours this week to start up. If you can make use of that, let > me know and I'll wander over to bitbucket.org. What I want is someone > to talk me through getting OpenAFS going in my personal environment. > I'm unclear how much value you'll get out of me on just five hours a > week and 1.5 machines. I've written proposals and defended engineers > building test environments, among other things, but I haven't gotten > my hands into code for many years, so I'm sure you'll be surprised by > what cultural assumptions you discover I don't know. I see and > appreciate your energy and optimism, while I think you're > underestimating what you're asking. But if you can make something > work with limited commitments from others, I'm happy to go along to > see what we can contribute to the community together. > > Doug > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 10:34 PM, Troy Benjegerdes <[email protected]> wrote: > > I'll buy that for a few emails. > > > > Let's start by having you take a look at: > > > > https://bitbucket.org/dahozer/tfs > > > > There are tabs for issues & wikis, so sign up for a bitbucket account and > > ask some questions there, so we don't spam the -devel list with lots of > > 'how do I xyz' questions > > > > For the openafs-devel list, please let the list know what resources/ > > platforms you have for testing, and I'd like to hear from the list what > > could I write some tests for that could utilize those resources. > > > > > > On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 09:44:07PM -0700, Doug Hirsch wrote: > >> Troy, > >> > >> If you set this up, I'm willing to be your guinea pig. It'll cost you > >> enough support and/or documentation to get me over initial learning > >> curve. > >> > >> Doug > >> > >> On 9/15/12, Troy Benjegerdes <[email protected]> wrote: > >> > Sometimes I think we get hung up on 'good testing' vs having *something*. > >> > > >> > The last time I worked for someone else, it was writing test code for > >> > Cray's > >> > supercomputer systems. You don't get much more complex than a machine > >> > with 30,000 cores in which 'acceptable' performance is defined as > >> > 'pushing > >> > the system to the point right before it collapses into an unusable heap', > >> > and it's got to run a workload of hundreds of thousands of the world's > >> > most > >> > complex and numerically sensitive computational codes. > >> > > >> > And I'd hazard a guess that 3/4 of the system problems were with the > >> > filesystem > >> > (Lustre most often). I've also heard a pretty good argument that the > >> > reason > >> > > >> > Cray went bankrupt a couple of times is they over-tested. If you did get > >> > a > >> > machine back in the YMP days, it was very well tested, but the price > >> > showed > >> > > >> > it, and clusters ate their market. > >> > > >> > > >> > Maybe we don't have money.. But how many users of AFS are there. I'm not > >> > talking > >> > companies, I'm talking people.. specifically, bored college students. How > >> > many > >> > people have used AFS at a major university, and might help us out doing > >> > manual > >> > testing if we give them a framework? > >> > > >> > To paraphrase the .. well.. chief cat herder .. of the most widely > >> > deployed > >> > operating system ever (Linux), > >> > "With enough QA testers, all bugs are shallow" > >> > > >> > On Fri, Sep 14, 2012 at 04:42:37PM -0500, David Boyes wrote: > >> >> > In this case I think you are low-balling the estimate. To do it right > >> >> > it isn't > >> >> > sufficient to test one build against itself. You need to test new > >> >> > clients > >> >> > against a range of old servers and vice versa in a constrained > >> >> > environment. > >> >> > It is necessary to be able to identify when a change has an adverse > >> >> > performance impact as well as accuracy. There is a need to be able to > >> >> > introduce intentional errors at various points in the protocol. Just > >> >> > the > >> >> > hardware costs are mid 5 digits and the software development is > >> >> > significantly more than that. > >> >> > >> >> I agree -- if you were starting from scratch, you're probably right. > >> >> > >> >> But, a) I wasn't starting from scratch, so the additional equipment for > >> >> adding the AFS framework stuff was about what I quoted, and b) I was > >> >> discussing our tooling and test setup, not the general case. > >> >> We reused existing tooling in a number of places, and layered the AFS > >> >> component onto that. We do this kind of thing for other software, so we > >> >> had a decent baseline to start from. > >> >> > >> >> Solid QA infrastructure -- especially for complex systems -- isn't > >> >> simple > >> >> or cheap; there we agree wholeheartedly. > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> :?? > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > OpenAFS-info mailing list > >> > [email protected] > >> > https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info > >> > > _______________________________________________ > OpenAFS-info mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info _______________________________________________ OpenAFS-info mailing list [email protected] https://lists.openafs.org/mailman/listinfo/openafs-info
