--------------------------------OpenCard ------------------------------------
- 001�OODL - Infrastructure - Web Site URLs 4/3/99 farmer
- 002�OODL - Guidelines - Naming Conventions - URLs 4/3/99 farmer
- 003�Re: OODL - Regroup 4/3/99 farmer
- 004�OODL - GUI - When? 4/3/99 farmer
- 005�Re: OODL - Regroup 4/3/99 omgang
- 006�OODL - Re: Regroup 4/3/99 omgang
- 007�Re: OODL - GUI - Multiple representations 4/3/99 farmer
- 008�Re: OODL - Regroup 4/3/99 derobert
- 009�Re: OODL - GUI - Multiple representations 4/3/99 derobert
- 010�Re: OODL - XML 4/4/99 blombo
-
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------1
-Hello fellow
OpenCarders.
Here is an exhaustive list of all of our URLs.
I am providing them because I have changed the entire site's HFS.
___________________
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/bug.html
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/comment.html
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/feature.html
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/index.html
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/join.html
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/archive/26Feb1999.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/archive/27Feb1999.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/archive/7Mar1999.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/3%20questions%20about%20the%20Open�.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/<no%20subject>.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/???@???%20Fri%20Mar%2005%2007-35-1�.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/???@???%20Sun%20Mar%2007%2019-48-4�.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/A%20new%20view%20(was%20Re-%20Get%20t
h�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/a%20new%20view.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/a->b.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Backlogs.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Backlogs023.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Backlogs024.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Backlogs025.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Battle%20of%20the%20xEnvironments.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Begging%20the%20question.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Boy%20scout-%20itemDelimiter.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Cloneing%20HC.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Collab%20struct.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Collaboration%20Infrastructur.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Digests%20available%20soon?.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Extendable%20Interpreter.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/File%20Format.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Found%20the%20Perl%20compiler.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Get%20this%20rolling%20again....txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/HC%20compatabiliity..txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/help.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/HyperCard%20should%20be%20openso�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/HyperS...ilence?.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/HyperTalk%20compatibility.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/HyperTalk%20Translator.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/i%20wish%20to%20join.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Interpreter%20first%20--%20Let's�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Interpreter%20first.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Interpreter%20Interface%20Idea.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/join%20opencard%20list.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Just%20a%20though%20about%20guidel�.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Keeping%20up%20appearances.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Mailing%20List.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/No%20Subject.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Notifying%20Others.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Cross%20Platform%20Code.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Demo%20of%20OpenCard.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Demo[44]%20what%20demo?.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Doing%20-%20Spierings%20-%20
R�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Interpreter%20Interface�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Interpreter.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Mail%20-%20Subject%20headin�
.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Money%20-%20Re-Andre.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Money%20-%20Re-Anthony.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Money.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Name.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Progress%20Report%20-%20Tok�
.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Re-%20What%20i'm%20up%20to%2
0Re�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20Re-%20What%20i'm%20up%20to.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20The%20Plan%20-%20Re-%20James
%20�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20What%20I'm%20up%20to%20-%20R
e-%20�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OC%20-%20What%20I'm%20up%20to-%20Inte
r�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Off%20Topic-%20Receiving%20retur�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Off%20Topic-%20XCMD%20Question.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Alain's%20role.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20C++%20Source%20Code%20-%20
R�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Code%20Resource%20-%20was�
.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Copying%20HyperCard.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20File%20Format%20-%20HTML%2
0�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20File%20Format%20-%20HTML.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20File%20Format%20-%20Resou�
.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20File%20Format%20-%20XML.tx
t
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20File%20format%20and%20Res�
.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20HC%20compatibility.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20HyperSense%20-%20Change�.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Licencing%20-%20Re-Uli.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Mail%20-%20List%20Digests.
txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Mail%20-%20ReplyTo%20Addr�
.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Mail%20-%20Subject%20head�
.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Mail%20List%20-%20Wrong%20
d�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Mail%20List.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Managers%20-%20Re-Uli.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Mission%20-%20Battle%20of�
.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Mission%20-%20Resume.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Multilingual%20-%20was-�.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Multiplatform%20Edito�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20My%20Interpreter%20-%20St�
.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20OpenSource%20licencin�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Porting%20to%20Linux.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Resources%20-%20Localiz�.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Resources%20-%20Re-Uli.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Standards.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20Unrelated%20(sorry)%20&�.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-%20x-platform%20classes.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-Change%20our%20mission?%20�.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL%20-Change%20our%20mission?.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OODL-%20What's%20OpenCard?%20Re-�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OOFL%20-%20What's%20OpenCard?%20-%20�
.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OpenCard%20-%20HC%20compatibility.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OpenCard%20-%20Mailing%20list.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OpenCard%20-%20Metaphor%20-%20Card?.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OpenCard%20-%20Programming%20lan�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OpenCard%20-%20Re-%20HC%20compatab�.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OpenCard%20Digest%20-%20Alain's%20�.t
xt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OpenCard%20digest.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OpenCard%20List.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OpenCard%20timeframe.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OpenCard%20xTalk.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OpenCard.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OpenTalk.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/OS%20independence.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/PLEASE%20DO%20ME%20A%20FAVOR!.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Practice%20Project.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/subscribe.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/suscribe.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/The%20interpreter!.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/The%20Plan..txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Try%20this%20interpreter.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Unrelated%20-%20Congrats%20Uli!.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/unsubscribe.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Velocity%20-->%20OpenCard?.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/Velocity-%20memory%20leak%20foun�.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/WASTE%20Licience.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/What's%20OpenCard?.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/x=y.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/xTalk-%20OpenCard%20xTalk.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/List/threads/[OpenCard]%20Design.txt
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/mission.html
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/more.html
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/OpenSourceLicencing/GeneralPublicLicense.html
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/PERL/Compiler_a3.sit.hqx
http://ufp.uqam.ca/OpenCard/status.html
-2
-Hello fellow
listers.
Here are some guidelines for the naming and organizing of our web site's
files :
1. Do not use special chars that need to be escaped
2. Do not use spaces
3. Keep names short
4. Don't overly nest your files
In this manner, our URLs will :
1. Not contain escape codes
2. Be shorter and, thus, easier to read and to type
-3
-> Andr� Spierings
: I think it is time we had an IRC meeting. Does anybody
> have a channel we could use? How does 9:00PM (GMT) next Saturday suit
> everybody? That's 8:00AM Sunday for me in Melbourne and about 4:00PM
Saturday
> in New York.
Alain : I will indeed be available in that time frame. Montreal, my place of
residence, is in the same time zone as New-York, and I work on sundays. I am
looking forward to it, but could you give me and everyone else in our group
instructions on how one goes about doing this ?
Regards
-4
-> Rob Cozens : Has
the group discussing OC UI design considered
constructing a HyperCard prototype? Once the
> basics are set up, it would be something we all could work with,
evaluate, and fine tune.
Alain : A prototype of the UI or of the engin ? Created with what ?
> Uli : Rob, cool idea. To do this a bit nicer, one could use my
UlisEdit XCMD, which would get you the nice
> marching ants and selection stuff for the mock-ups. Of course it's
available on the UFP web site.
Alain : Are you proposing to prototype OpenCard's UI with HyperCard and
some externals ?
> Andre : I don't think we have one. It is everybody's job to design
the UI not the programmers only.
Alain : I share the same conviction, Andre. Everyone should participate
in the UI.
> Uli : Maybe we can make one? Who'd like to dream up a new UI for
HyperCard, here's your chance!
Alain : How about mocking up OpenCard's interface with some dynamic
HTML ?
> Uli : I can do some consulting and help out with XCMDs, but I'm
rather busy right now, gotta get ready for two
> important exams...
Alain : Thank you, Uli.
> MPOWerd : Actually, I would rather that UI was done last.
Alain : My multimedia training has taught me that one should START with
the interface, and work backwards to achieve the interface's goals. In
this manner, the final product ( the interface ) will be designed with
its end-users in mind. Too many projects don't do this, and we end up
with software products that make one wonder "what were they thinking
of??"
> MPOWerd : Our goal is to make an OpenCard that can be adapted for
many uses, a plugin for netscape navigator,
> an xTalk for clarisworks, you name it.
Alain : Agreed.
> MPOWerd : For that reason, the UI is defined by the programmers using
the engine, not by us.
Alain : I don't believe that programmers make very good interface
designers. They are so used to "small" complications and extra steps
that they end up creating interfaces that demand too much from their
users, because these users simply don't have the same knowledge and
experience that the programmers take for granted.
> Rob Cozens : They have to have a starting point. Surely we're not
going to say,
> "Here's the OpenCard interpreter; now go write your own interface."
Alain : That would be like "putting the carriage before the horse". The
interface should drive the entire process if we want something designed
with the user in mind.
> MPOWerd : After the xTalk engine is finished, UI should be what we
focus on.
Alain : While we wait for our xTalk engin to be completed, we could use
another xTalk engin - one that is already up and running - as a
temporary "shoe-in". What am I talking about ? I am talking about the
fact that Scott Raney has offered our group a licence to use his
MetaCard engin, free of charge ! Thus, we could start on OpenCard's UI
immediately, with the MC-engin, then substitute the MC-engin with our
own once it is ready.
> Rob Cozens : Why wait? I thought a group had already been formed to
work on UI design.
Alain : If we don't have one already, then we will create one. Why
wait?
> Uli : I think as we'll have a HyperCard replacement first, there's no
problem in doing the GUI simultaneously.
> After all, it has to fit that bill at least. The plug-ins or whatever
else will either be some sort of OpenCard player
> that just deploys on a different platform, or it'll be only the
interpreter cut out, which will not come in contact with
> that UI at all. Or did you have any considerations I didn't take into
account yet? This OpenCard UI could fit two
> bills at once: (1) it would serve as a prototype for OpenCard's UI ;
Alain : Agreed.
> Uli : (2) it could serve as a wish list for HC 3 which we can send to
Apple
Alain : Are you still clinging to this hope ?
-5
-> > Andr�
Spierings : I think it is time we had an IRC meeting. Does anybody
> > have a channel we could use? How does 9:00PM (GMT) next Saturday suit
> > everybody? That's 8:00AM Sunday for me in Melbourne and about 4:00PM
Saturday
> > in New York.
>
> Alain : I will indeed be available in that time frame. Montreal, my place
of
> residence, is in the same time zone as New-York, and I work on sundays. I am
> looking forward to it, but could you give me and everyone else in our group
> instructions on how one goes about doing this ?
Go to http://www.ircle.com and get an irc program. Wait until we find a
channel we
can use. Anthony has informed me that it is 5PM in NY not 4PM due to daylight
saving.
O.K. I'll tell you more if we get a channel. I'll look into what has to be
done to
set one up.
More later
Andre
-6
-> O.K. I'll tell
you more if we get a channel. I'll look into what has to be done to
> set one up.
MP0werd just informed me that you just have to make one up and it is
automatically
created and he was right. I've used this server before and it is nice and
quiet.
Server:
irc.ticino.com
Port:
7000
Channel:
#opencard
see you there,
Andre
-7
-> MPOWerd : For that reason, the
UI is defined by the programmers using the
> engine, not by us.
>
> Alain : I don't believe that programmers make very good interface
> designers. They are so used to "small" complications and extra steps that
> they end up creating interfaces that demand too much from their users,
> because these users simply don't have the same knowledge and experience
> that the programmers take for granted.
>
> MP0werd : What I meant was that if their embedding the xTalk engine into
> a spreadsheet program, the spreadsheet will be the ui. If it's a word
> processor, the word processor will be the UI. If it's a web plugin, the
> browser will be the UI.
Alain : In my view, the UI that we will create should ideally abstract away
such "details" as the particular context, be it a spreadsheet or a
word-processor or a web-plugin ! That's what I like about HTML and other
markup languages like it. The markup directives are generic and implemented
in the best-possible-manner by the browser given its particular constraints.
These markup schemes also markup what the information is, how it is
organized, and so on -- for knowledge engineering and web-robots -- but
merely SUGGEST how the content should be rendered. In these schemes, the
browser ( UI ) need not even be a screen-based browser. Furthermore, this
separation between the content, the meta-information describing it, and its
presentation also allows for many different representations or nodels of the
same information, such as spreadsheets, word-processors, web-plugins,
stacks, etc.
-8
->> > Andr� Spierings :
I think it is time we had an IRC meeting. Does anybody
>> > have a channel we could use? How does 9:00PM (GMT) next Saturday suit
>> > everybody? That's 8:00AM Sunday for me in Melbourne and about 4:00PM
>>Saturday
>> > in New York.
>>
>> Alain : I will indeed be available in that time frame. Montreal, my
>>place of
>> residence, is in the same time zone as New-York, and I work on sundays. I
am
>> looking forward to it, but could you give me and everyone else in our group
>> instructions on how one goes about doing this ?
>
>Go to http://www.ircle.com and get an irc program. Wait until we find a
>channel we
>can use. Anthony has informed me that it is 5PM in NY not 4PM due to daylight
>saving.
>
>O.K. I'll tell you more if we get a channel. I'll look into what has to be
>done to
>set one up.
Nothing. You just join one and it is created... Now, if you want a
permanent channel, you'd have to know which irc net you're using first.
Give me your choice and I can probably set it up -- I've done so before.
-9
->> MP0werd : What I
meant was that if their embedding the xTalk engine into
>> a spreadsheet program, the spreadsheet will be the ui. If it's a word
>> processor, the word processor will be the UI. If it's a web plugin, the
>> browser will be the UI.
>
>Alain : In my view, the UI that we will create should ideally abstract away
>such "details" as the particular context, be it a spreadsheet or a
>word-processor or a web-plugin !
The xTalk engine, as I am writing now (and as is visible from the
snapshots!) could not care less about UI.
-10
-What happened to
the XML list? Since it was created i cant remember
recieving any emails from it.
Julian Blackhirst
sorry to Andre to whom i sent this by mistake
--------------------------------End OpenCard--------------------------------
