For sure we all want to go further! But we need to demonstrate moderately cool stuff in the immediate term, and this saliency detector (appropriately leveraged within Psi rules) should be helpful in that regard...
On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 5:03 PM, Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> wrote: > OK, well, if you just write a teensy sliver of code that simply turns the > head towards any direction where something "sufficiently salient" happened, > then sure, that makes for a livelier, more entertaining demo. And so maybe > that is worthwhile. > > But it also keeps her at the "dumb robot" level, reacting to a stimulus > without any clue as to why -- its like a single-neuron circuit -- whenever > one end of the neuron gets tickled, the other end turns a motor. I want to > move past single-neuron reactive circuitry. I mean, doors that swing out > of your way when you approach them were were in all the supermarkets by the > 1960's -- turning your head to look at something "salient" is at about the > same level of sophistication. Its been 50 years. Yes, get to that, but then > go farther. > > --linas > > On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 1:08 AM, Ben Goertzel <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi LInas, many of your suggestions are good ones and should be added to >> the list >> >> However, the "visual saliency" term was not invented by us -- and the >> addition of this saliency detector was especially suggested by David H >> because in his prior work he has found similar code to be useful with >> his robots.... So I guess I will trust him that it's a useful >> indicator to have, even though I agree with you that lots of other >> stuff is also useful >> >> The reason for adding a "Degree" was that without it, the saliency >> detector gave way too many false positives.... Having a degree lets >> us tune a threshold denoting what is salient enough to bother doing >> anything about... >> >> ben >> >> On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 1:01 PM, Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > Oops, hit "send" on the email too soon. >> > >> > Perhaps the #1 most important thing on the list is the "sudden change in >> > brightness" detector. During the demos people either cover her camera >> > or >> > get up in her face, and say things like "can you see me now", and I >> > would >> > really like to have the robot know when this is happening -- this is >> > probably the #1 most important demoable feature, more important than >> > saliency, movement, anything else. >> > >> > The #2 most important feature would be size-of-movement -- another thing >> > people do is to wave their hand directly in front of the camera: From >> > the >> > camera point of view, it would look like everything is moving everywhere >> > -- >> > the entire visual field is moving. It doesn't have a location, because >> > its >> > everywhere. Again, this is a very important situation to recognize, and >> > relay to the robot. >> > >> > Both of the above should be easy to implement, and are more important, >> > demo-wise, than "saliency". >> > >> > --linas >> > >> > >> > >> > On Mon, Aug 8, 2016 at 2:49 PM, Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> I have multiple issues with the so-called "saliency detector" in this >> >> pull >> >> request: https://github.com/hansonrobotics/HEAD/pull/117 that I'm >> >> thinking >> >> its better to discuss these in general, rather than simply in the >> >> context of >> >> one pull request. >> >> >> >> So:... >> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 27, 2016 at 10:06 AM, natnaelargaw >> >> <[email protected]> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> the frequency of occurrence of a salient point with in a fixed turn >> >>> around time t. Further more, this method norm >> >> >> >> >> >> First off, the entire module seems to be mis-named -- it has nothing at >> >> all to do with "saliency" -- rather, the device seems to be a >> >> motion-tracker. >> >> >> >> Something can be highly salient, and completely still, but that is not >> >> what this does, based on the description in the README. >> >> >> >> Next, I'd like to see an API change. Put yourself in the place of >> >> opencog. >> >> Suppose you were blind-folded, and someone was whispering in your ear: >> >> "hey, there is something important happening in the upper left. Oh >> >> wait, now >> >> its less important. ... now its more important, again! Oh and also, >> >> there's >> >> something to your right, but its not very important." >> >> >> >> What can you possibly do with that data? WTF? How can I possibly build >> >> a >> >> smart robot, when its effectively blind-folded, and has the above as >> >> sensory >> >> input? >> >> >> >> Thus, I suggest completely eliminating the "degree of saliency" measure >> >> from the API, and replacing it by three things: the *size* of the >> >> moving >> >> area, *how fast* its moving, and its color. >> >> >> >> Now, blind-folded, you get the message: "its very small, its moving >> >> slowly, and its black", and you might guess that its a fly buzzing >> >> around. >> >> "its big and its green and its up high and its bouncing" and you might >> >> guess >> >> its a helium balloon. "its medium and its skin toned" and you might >> >> guess a >> >> waving hand or arm. >> >> >> >> Size speed and color should be easy to add, and would really be useful. >> >> >> >> For bonus points, I'd like a spinning/waving measure. So, for example, >> >> a >> >> ceiling fan is "moving" but it never changes position. Similarly, a TV >> >> set >> >> in the background is "moving", without changing its location. >> >> Likewise, >> >> anyone who is waving their hand -- the hand is moving but really stays >> >> in >> >> the same place. This is very different from things the move and also >> >> change position -- someone walking across the room is both moving and >> >> changing position. >> >> >> >> Another bonus measure: is it moving up, down, sideways? >> >> >> >> There's four more bits of data that would be useful, unrelated to >> >> motion: >> >> -- a general sense of how bright or dark the room is, >> >> -- a general sense of the contrast in the image (sharp black/what, or >> >> mostly washed-out grey) >> >> -- sudden changes in overall lighting >> >> -- average color for the entire visual field. >> >> >> >> Sunlit rooms tend to have high contrast; lots of blue suggests the sky >> >> is >> >> visible; a sudden change of lighting suggests that someone put their >> >> hand >> >> over the camera. >> >> >> >> Apparently, people cover the camera with their hands a lot during >> >> demos, >> >> and I would really really like to know when that happens. >> >> >> >> There's other stuff I'd like to see, that would allow the robot to >> >> actually *learn*, but that is for a some future email. The short >> >> version is >> >> that I would like to be able to send the detector some little tiny >> >> snippets >> >> of pseudo-code, and have it run that pseudo-code, and report when it >> >> triggers. The pseudo-code would consist of little algorithmic >> >> combinations >> >> of speed, color, movement, size, etc. and opencog would generate these >> >> and >> >> use them as feature detectors. I.e. rather than hard-coding >> >> (hand-coding) >> >> the feature detectors, they would be generated dynamically, on the fly, >> >> by >> >> opencog itself, rather than by human programmers. This is an idea for >> >> the >> >> future, though. Important, but not urgent. >> >> >> >> -- Linas >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Ben Goertzel, PhD >> http://goertzel.org >> >> Super-benevolent super-intelligence is the thought the Global Brain is >> currently struggling to form... > > -- Ben Goertzel, PhD http://goertzel.org Super-benevolent super-intelligence is the thought the Global Brain is currently struggling to form... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/opencog. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CACYTDBcGonC9tNYm_-huxaubpfuDmL6g9Khiq_EM8S9kKJ4GFg%40mail.gmail.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
