Thank you so much for the thorough response. I realize now that the difficult thing about doing a Ph.D. in AGI is finding support for such an idea. On the positive side, perhaps this is an opportunity to take initiative and become a leading expert before it takes off, similar to your story of chaos theory. Maybe this is the right time to delve into it, or maybe it isn't. Still, I feel that at the end of the day someone, or more accurately a group of people, will have to sit down and figure AGI out. The fact that this needs to happen motivates me to find a way in.
I really appreciate your effort in introducing Geoffrey Hinton and asking for advice. I'll be sure to follow up with him, look for others, and contact them directly about doing a Ph.D. Generally, put a lot more focus on networking. Curriculum-wise was reading up on Ben's Real-World Reasoning. I'll definitely pester you later on AGI technicalities :) On Monday, April 26, 2021 at 12:19:20 AM UTC-4 linas wrote: > Hi Jose, > > Regarding finding a PhD program in which to study AGI ... > > On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 10:31 PM Jose Ignacio Rodriguez-Labra < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Thank you for the response, Linas. >> >> I thought that academia was the place to go to work on cutting-edge ideas >> and pushing boundaries :( >> >> However to be honest I do see what you're saying. I've personally spoken >> to a couple of experienced professors who've done research on machine >> learning and neural networks, but they seem like they don't believe in AGI, >> or that it is in a ridiculously away future. I can see their disbelief in >> their eyes. >> >> But I'm sure that in history there have been technologies that no one had >> believed in before their development, how did those come to fruition? What >> does the history manual recommend I do? Is AGI development from my basement >> in my free time the best I can do? How did you end up in the position that >> you are that allowed you to gain your expertise in AGI? Thank you. >> > > Those are good questions. To answer them, let me offer a few stories. A > long time ago, when I was in grad school, I became very interested in > fractals, "negative entropy", and "chaos". I thought these would be > fascinating things to study, but was warned against it. I was told that > only cranks and crackpots study such things and I would never be able to > get a job. This was, of course, shortly before "chaos theory" exploded on > the scene. Eventually, there were best-seller books written about it! (In > the end, I did not study chaos; I feel like I missed my chance: I was in > the right place at the right time and did the wrong thing.) > > Academics are a conservative bunch, because they have to write grant > proposals that do not get rejected. No grant -> no money -> no job/tenure, > if you're young, can't do research, can't pay for grad students, can't pay > for lab equipment, computer time. The guys in the machine shop who drill > pieces of metal for your experiment - they need to be paid. So you don't > want to write grant proposals that sound crazy and are likely to be > rejected. This makes academics stick fairly closely to the mainstream; they > are risk-averse. > > I did keep whining about chaos, and kept gluing pictures of fractals on > the wall. Someone suggested that I talk to Phil Anderson -- he was, by > that point, a rather famous and established heretical thinker. However, he > was in California, I was in New York, and this was before email. I would > have to write a letter, or call on the phone. I was easily intimidated .. > and socially awkward. I didn't know how to do that. (I should have done > it). > > I was also sent to talk to Per Bak, a bit before he got famous. He was at > Brookhaven; I was almost done with my PhD, I was silly and did not know > what to talk about, and I did not know how to ask for a job or how to ask > for advice (!!) I knew math and physics, I did not have "ordinary > common-sense people skills". Alas. > > The point of my stories is for you not to repeat them. There almost surely > are some AGI thinkers embedded in academia, but I do not know who they are. > It is much more valuable and important for you to find them; studying AGI > in your basement is a formulas for intellectual suicide. Standard career > advice: it is not what you know, it's who you know. > > Here is an idea: someone recently pointed me at a paper by Geoffrey Hinton > "How to represent part-whole hierarchies in a neural network": > https://arxiv.org/abs/2102.12627 -- I have not read it yet, but it looks > right up my alley. You should raise your hand and write to him, and say > something like "hey me! I want to do that!" -- or at least, ask him what > you asked me -- advice on getting a PhD. If I may be so bold, I will bcc > him on this (bcc, so as not to spam a public mailing list with a private > email address.) > > So here's the deal: I've been working on the intersection of neural nets > and symbolic AI since -- I dunno -- 2014? Earlier? I've been laboring in > (what feels like) complete obscurity, unable to get anyone interested or > excited. Asking me for help is pointless: I have no connections; I don't > know of anyone, besides Ben, who is interested in this topic. > > By contrast: Geoffrey Hinton has a Wikipedia article about him. He has > connections both to a respectable university and to Google. That's hard to > beat. He may not personally know anyone interested in AGI, but he might be > able to point you in the right direction. > > My strongest advice to you is to keep asking around, through your network > of people who know other people who might know, and pose them this same > question. > > I can give you a specific curriculum to study, but this is not the most > important thing, right now. Pester me later, as the mood hits. > > -- linas > > > >> On Sunday, April 25, 2021 at 6:52:30 PM UTC-4 linas wrote: >> >>> I don't know. Let us know if you find out. My general impression is that >>> academia is still actively hostile to the idea of AGI. I've never had a >>> conversation on the topic that went well. >>> >>> -- Linas >>> >>> On Sun, Apr 25, 2021 at 11:49 AM Jose Ignacio Rodriguez-Labra < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I want to get serious in the development of AGI, and I think doing a >>>> Ph.D. might be best for me. I will graduate with my master's this Fall >>>> 2021. Do you guys have any recommendations for universities, research >>>> institutes, or programs in the US or even international? Thank you. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "opencog" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/d0efa315-7d7d-4fad-8ba3-33432981f0e5n%40googlegroups.com >>>> >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/d0efa315-7d7d-4fad-8ba3-33432981f0e5n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >>> Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "opencog" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/e3426270-cfb1-4df0-82ac-fede670ab5d8n%40googlegroups.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/e3426270-cfb1-4df0-82ac-fede670ab5d8n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > > > -- > Patrick: Are they laughing at us? > Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. 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