On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 10:05 AM Ivan V. <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thank you, Jacques, for your thoughtful response. > > I've been experimenting with php for a few hours now. It's exactly as Linas > said, like reading and writing files, completely php native, no addons. I'll > probably go like an ajaxing php script that opens a connection, sends a > command, reads a response, and closes the connection. Things look promising > for now, it is just that little something I'd like to avoid: mandatory > sleeping php for 125 milliseconds (on my machine) to give a time for getting > the response after sending a command. But I'm out of ideas on how to avoid it.
Ah. But of course it's never as simple as it seems. -- conventionally, socket-reads are blocking: the call does not return until there is something to be read, -- blocking kills interactivity, so usually people do socket i/o is done in it's own thread. -- if you don't like threads, then there are async i/o libraries that try to avoid this, -- and it rapidly goes downhill from there, because you have to deal with things that hang, never return, crash, return only partial messages, and its a general horror show. -- I've used one async library in my life, the boost c++ async library, and it is 100% awful. This is why network programming is challenging. --linas p.s. you don't have to close the cogserver socket after one message, you can keep it open. > > - ivan - > > uto, 21. pro 2021. u 15:23 Jacques Basaldúa <[email protected]> > napisao je: >> >> Hi Ivan, >> >> Maybe, if you use zeroMQ (there is a PHP version, >> https://www.php.net/manual/en/book.zmq.php) you can use the sockets just >> like Linas is saying. >> >> In Python, the actual code would be: >> >> ``` >> import zmq >> >> context = zmq.Context() >> socket = context.socket(zmq.REQ) >> socket.connect ("tcp://localhost:17001") >> >> socket.send ("(+ 2 2)") >> message = socket.recv() >> ``` >> >> That requires the server to listen to the tcp socket connection which is the >> transport layer of your telnet connection. Telnet itself would be the >> application layer and, as Linas says, is probably not necessary. >> >> My 2 cents. >> Jacques. >> >> On Tue, Dec 21, 2021 at 8:23 AM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Ivan, >>> >>> Some quick remarks about networking. >>> >>> -- Using telnet to access the cogserver is wild technology overkill. >>> Telnet was designed to provide a teletype terminal over the network, >>> including lots of complex teletype escape sequences. The cogserver >>> needs exactly zero of that. >>> >>> -- the cogserver network interface is extremely low-level. So >>> low-level, you can't get any lower. It's rock-stupid simple and basic. >>> You open a socket. A very basic, simple, plain ordinary socket. Then >>> you read and write characters to it. That's all. That's it. It's not >>> any harder than opening a file, and reading/writing to that. Uses the >>> same read/write API that files use. If you know sockets well (and it >>> seems very few people do) it's about 5-10 lines of code. Or less. >>> There's absolutely no need for complexity. >>> >>> I don't know php well enough, but the pseudocode really should be >>> ``` >>> sock = open (locahost, 17001) >>> write (sock, "(+ 2 2)") >>> read(sock, buffer) >>> close(sock) >>> ``` >>> Really little or nothing more than that.. >>> >>> FWIW, that's my coding philosophy: remove as much complexity as >>> possible ("but no more"). Kind of everything is guided by that. >>> >>> Linas >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 6:05 PM Ivan V. <[email protected]> wrote: >>> > >>> > I was thinking more in a direction of including some MIT licensed php >>> > telnet library. If I'm on the right path about this, then there is no >>> > need for installing netcat, "only" php and Apache web server. But from >>> > your examples, netcat command prompt seems pretty simple to use. I'm >>> > still not sure about php running native programs, especially receiving an >>> > output from them, including running the whole app directly from the web. >>> > >>> > - ivan - >>> > >>> > pon, 20. pro 2021. u 23:22 Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> napisao >>> > je: >>> >> >>> >> And one more, I hit send too soon. >>> >> >>> >> echo -e "scm quiet\n(+ 2 2)\n" |nc -N localhost 17001 >>> >> >>> >> The "quiet" mode suppresses the printing of the guile prompts. >>> >> Unfortunately, the first prompt is always sent :-( >>> >> >>> >> -- linas >>> >> >>> >> On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 4:15 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > >>> >> > Shoot. I wrote the wrong thing. >>> >> > Try this: >>> >> > >>> >> > echo "(+ 2 2)" |nc -N localhost 17001 >>> >> > >>> >> > The -N flag closes the socket after getting the reply, otherwise it >>> >> > hangs waiting for more input. >>> >> > So you'd replace the echo by php print and pipe to command. >>> >> > >>> >> > -- Linas >>> >> > >>> >> > On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 4:10 PM Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> > > >>> >> > > On Mon, Dec 20, 2021 at 3:39 PM Ivan V. <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > Ok, this was fun... >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > I restarted the computer in the meanwhile, deleted the whole >>> >> > > > OpenCog, and recloned and rebuilt everything without any problems. >>> >> > > > This time I put all the additional assets I needed like cogserver >>> >> > > > under `opencog` directory, if that means anything. >>> >> > > >>> >> > > You should be able to `git clone` to anywhere at all. And after >>> >> > > building, saying `sudo make install` puts everything under the >>> >> > > `/usr/local` directory. >>> >> > > >>> >> > > My guess is that you had old and incompatible clones: you would have >>> >> > > to say `git pull` in all repos, to get a self-consistent version. >>> >> > > >>> >> > > > Cogserver is now up and running on port 17001, successfully >>> >> > > > communicating to rlwrap telnet. The initial test went fine. >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > Next, the plan is to telnet it from php, and pipe it to html >>> >> > > > visualizer, if that's ok. >>> >> > > >>> >> > > probably the simplest way to do this is by wrapping php around >>> >> > > netcat. >>> >> > > Warning, there are two incompatible versions of netcat you can >>> >> > > install. They are *almost* compatible, but not quite; one needs an >>> >> > > extra flag that the other doesn't, else it hangs up too soon. >>> >> > > >>> >> > > I have the bsd version installed the package is `netcat-openbsd` >>> >> > > >>> >> > > Use it like so: `nc localhost 17001 (+ 2 2)` or `nc localhost 17001 >>> >> > > (cog-prt-atomspace)` and so on. >>> >> > > >>> >> > > > Wish me luck :) >>> >> > > >>> >> > > Good luck! and Merry Christmas, too! >>> >> > > >>> >> > > -- linas >>> >> > > >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > - ivan - >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > pon, 20. pro 2021. u 20:00 Linas Vepstas <[email protected]> >>> >> > > > napisao je: >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> On Sun, Dec 19, 2021 at 2:11 PM Ivan V. <[email protected]> >>> >> > > >> wrote: >>> >> > > >> > >>> >> > > >> > Hi Linas and others, >>> >> > > >> > >>> >> > > >> > Sorry for the delay, I've been busy with my other projects. Now >>> >> > > >> > I tried to install OpenCog, made through several make steps >>> >> > > >> > until my machine started to hang. Tried several times, it >>> >> > > >> > always hangs on the same build step. I guess this is a penalty >>> >> > > >> > for having only 4GB on my machine, right? >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> It builds just fine on my six-year-old 1GB laptop (which cost $200 >>> >> > > >> when new, so low end from the get-go.). I can even browse the web >>> >> > > >> while it's building. >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> Open a bug report. describe the problem. >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> > And then I tried another option: I installed OpenCog from here: >>> >> > > >> > `https://github.com/opencog/docker`. I tried to follow >>> >> > > >> > `README.md` instructions, ran `./docker-build.sh -a` (the >>> >> > > >> > script successfully completed), but then I got stuck starting >>> >> > > >> > cogserver because the `cogserver/build/` folder is empty. >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> The docker containers are possibly stale. >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> --linas >>> >> > > >> >>> >> > > >> -- >>> >> > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>> >> > > >> Google Groups "opencog" group. >>> >> > > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>> >> > > >> send an email to [email protected]. >>> >> > > >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> >> > > >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34a2O624WCfk821t3wqUEYeg0WM%2B571AOKxGG2cCUB_xA%40mail.gmail.com. >>> >> > > > >>> >> > > > -- >>> >> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> >> > > > Groups "opencog" group. >>> >> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>> >> > > > send an email to [email protected]. >>> >> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit >>> >> > > > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAB5%3Dj6WYVbV14e4xZPWYJm-iEnzNdi21YXQK%2BbmWRa5f%2B29j4w%40mail.gmail.com. >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > >>> >> > > -- >>> >> > > Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >>> >> > > Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > -- >>> >> > Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >>> >> > Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >>> >> Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >>> >> >>> >> -- >>> >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> >> Groups "opencog" group. >>> >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> >> an email to [email protected]. >>> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA35jXYy0AgLtum%3DvynpN%3DjvTH0r%2Bv5NPnBWncMVAxaKjtw%40mail.gmail.com. >>> > >>> > -- >>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> > "opencog" group. >>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> > email to [email protected]. >>> > To view this discussion on the web visit >>> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAB5%3Dj6XaSAiommr7aLKHs880h7G_yEY0Nx2QKTismCoZRzw9nw%40mail.gmail.com. >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Patrick: Are they laughing at us? >>> Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "opencog" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA37G6CUQrdHQpwMS%3DkmM3StUZNCrUrmsVohr-sd51ZSsgA%40mail.gmail.com. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "opencog" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CA%2B_pmb6BgsVcp%2B9HuYY%3Dmm-%2BwNjmf7aX7aBLK1ZJ1R%3DxwZpe-Q%40mail.gmail.com. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "opencog" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAB5%3Dj6XmuXC81OSgOBfa0-VWJ4TWKi80biNHbJ%3DBwa%3D1SXyYQQ%40mail.gmail.com. -- Patrick: Are they laughing at us? Sponge Bob: No, Patrick, they are laughing next to us. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "opencog" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/opencog/CAHrUA34AdmAmWMxNL4dXD4ReNgcrybOiF8JXQgv2Aa7r_On09Q%40mail.gmail.com.
