On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 9:42 AM Richard Purdie <[email protected]> wrote: > > On Thu, 2023-06-01 at 09:18 -0400, Bruce Ashfield wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 1, 2023 at 3:15 AM Richard Purdie > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 2023-05-31 at 19:24 -0400, Bruce Ashfield wrote: > > > > On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 6:22 PM Richard Purdie > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 2023-05-31 at 18:18 -0400, Bruce Ashfield wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, May 31, 2023 at 6:03 PM Richard Purdie > > > > > > <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Bruce, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 2023-05-31 at 14:48 -0400, [email protected] wrote: > > > > > > > > From: Bruce Ashfield <[email protected]> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's my consolidated queue. I've had some of these in testing > > > > > > > > for quite > > > > > > > > a while, as I didn't want to send them right before release or > > > > > > > > before my > > > > > > > > vacation last week. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Most are -stable updates to 6.1 and finally bumping the -dev > > > > > > > > recipe to > > > > > > > > show that we've been testing 6.4 for quite some time. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The make-mod-scripts rmwork fix was discussed at lenght on the > > > > > > > > list, and > > > > > > > > has been tested by myself and people seeing the issues. But > > > > > > > > with all the > > > > > > > > races and issues we've seen in that area for years, I'll keep a > > > > > > > > close eye > > > > > > > > out for AB issues. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I've factored things a bit around enabling PAHOLE, I don't > > > > > > > > expect it > > > > > > > > to cause issues since it isn't on by default .. but you never > > > > > > > > know with > > > > > > > > these sorts of changes. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I also have a bump for the refernece BSPs (sent to the > > > > > > > > appropriate > > > > > > > > list shortly) and a documentation commit for the PAHOLE tweaks > > > > > > > > (also > > > > > > > > sent to that list shortly, once we agree on the this change). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the updates! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I put these in for testing (along with some other changes) and > > > > > > > there > > > > > > > was an issue, probably the same thing showing up but I've not dug > > > > > > > into > > > > > > > it: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/typhoon/#/builders/76/builds/7159 > > > > > > > https://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/typhoon/#/builders/61/builds/7197 > > > > > > > https://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/typhoon/#/builders/104/builds/6093/steps/11/logs/stdio > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That's odd: > > > > > > > > > > > > ERROR: core-image-sato-sdk-1.0-r0 do_testimage: File > > > > > > /home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/deploy/images/qemux86/core-image-sato-sdk-qemux86.testdata.json > > > > > > not found ([Errno 2] No such file or directory: > > > > > > '/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/deploy/images/qemux86/core-image-sato-sdk-qemux86.testdata.json'). > > > > > > > > > > That is the QA test failing due to an earlier failure to build the > > > > > image. The earlier failure looks like: > > > > > > > > > > https://autobuilder.yoctoproject.org/typhoon/#/builders/76/builds/7159/steps/11/logs/stdio > > > > > > > > > > Log data follows: > > > > > > DEBUG: Executing python function extend_recipe_sysroot > > > > > > NOTE: Direct dependencies are > > > > > > ['/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-core/glibc/glibc_2.37.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > '/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-devtools/binutils/binutils-cross_2.40.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > '/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-devtools/gcc/gcc-cross_13.1.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > '/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-devtools/gcc/gcc-runtime_13.1.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > '/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-devtools/quilt/quilt-native_0.67.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > '/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-kernel/kern-tools/kern-tools-native_git.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-connectivity/openssl/openssl_3.1.1.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-core/util-linux/util-linux_2.38.1.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-core/zlib/zlib_1.2.13.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-devtools/bison/bison_3.8.2.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-devtools/elfutils/elfutils_0.189.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-devtools/patch/patch_2.7.6.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-devtools/pkgconfig/pkgconfig_git.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-devtools/pseudo/pseudo_git.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-extended/bc/bc_1.07.1.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-extended/xz/xz_5.4.3.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-kernel/kmod/kmod_30.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-support/gmp/gmp_6.2.1.bb:do_populate_sysroot', > > > > > > > > > > > > 'virtual:native:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/meta/recipes-support/libmpc/libmpc_1.3.1.bb:do_populate_sysroot'] > > > > > > NOTE: Installed into sysroot: ['kern-tools-native', > > > > > > 'util-linux-native', 'kmod-native', 'libcap-ng-native', > > > > > > 'libpcre2-native'] > > > > > > NOTE: Skipping as already exists in sysroot: ['glibc', > > > > > > 'binutils-cross-i686', 'gcc-cross-i686', 'gcc-runtime', > > > > > > 'quilt-native', 'openssl-native', 'zlib-native', 'bison-native', > > > > > > 'elfutils-native', 'patch-native', 'pkgconfig-native', > > > > > > 'pseudo-native', 'bc-native', 'xz-native', 'gmp-native', > > > > > > 'libmpc-native', 'linux-libc-headers', 'libgcc', > > > > > > 'gnu-config-native', 'flex-native', 'texinfo-dummy-native', > > > > > > 'libtool-native', 'mpfr-native', 'zstd-native', 'perl-native', > > > > > > 'gettext-minimal-native', 'ncurses-native', > > > > > > 'util-linux-libuuid-native', 'libmicrohttpd-native', > > > > > > 'libarchive-native', 'curl-native', 'sqlite3-native', > > > > > > 'readline-native', 'attr-native', 'python3-native', 'm4-native', > > > > > > 'gdbm-native', 'make-native', 'gnutls-native', 'libgcrypt-native', > > > > > > 'bzip2-native', 'libedit-native', 'libffi-native', > > > > > > 'libtirpc-native', 'expat-native', 'libnsl2-native', > > > > > > 'nettle-native', 'libidn2-native', 'libtasn1-native', > > > > > > 'libunistring-native', 'libcap-native', 'libgpg-error-native', > > > > > > 'cmake-native'] > > > > > > DEBUG: sed -e > > > > > > 's:^[^/]*/:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/:g' > > > > > > > > > > > > /home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/sysroots-components/x86_64/libpcre2-native/fixmepath > > > > > > | xargs sed -i -e > > > > > > 's:FIXMESTAGINGDIRTARGET:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot:g; > > > > > > > > > > > > s:FIXMESTAGINGDIRHOST:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native:g' > > > > > > -e > > > > > > 's:FIXME_PSEUDO_SYSROOT:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/sysroots-components/x86_64/pseudo-native:g' > > > > > > -e > > > > > > 's:FIXME_HOSTTOOLS_DIR:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/hosttools:g' > > > > > > -e > > > > > > 's:FIXME_PKGDATA_DIR:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/pkgdata/qemux86:g' > > > > > > -e > > > > > > 's:FIXME_PSEUDO_LOCALSTATEDIR:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/pseudo/:g' > > > > > > -e > > > > > > 's:FIXME_LOGFIFO:/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/temp/fifo.169218:g' > > > > > > DEBUG: Python function extend_recipe_sysroot finished > > > > > > DEBUG: Executing shell function do_configure > > > > > > NOTE: make HOSTCC=gcc > > > > > > -isystem/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/usr/include > > > > > > -O2 -pipe > > > > > > -L/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/usr/lib > > > > > > > > > > > > -L/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/lib > > > > > > -Wl,--enable-new-dtags > > > > > > > > > > > > -Wl,-rpath-link,/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/usr/lib > > > > > > > > > > > > -Wl,-rpath-link,/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/lib > > > > > > > > > > > > -Wl,-rpath,/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/usr/lib > > > > > > > > > > > > -Wl,-rpath,/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/lib > > > > > > -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--allow-shlib-undefined > > > > > > -Wl,--dynamic-linker=/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/sysroots-uninative/x86_64-linux/lib/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 > > > > > > -static HOSTCPP=gcc -E HOSTCXX=g++ > > > > > > -isystem/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/usr/include > > > > > > -O2 -pipe > > > > > > -L/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/usr/lib > > > > > > > > > > > > -L/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/lib > > > > > > -Wl,--enable-new-dtags > > > > > > > > > > > > -Wl,-rpath-link,/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/usr/lib > > > > > > > > > > > > -Wl,-rpath-link,/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/lib > > > > > > > > > > > > -Wl,-rpath,/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/usr/lib > > > > > > > > > > > > -Wl,-rpath,/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/lib > > > > > > -Wl,-O1 -Wl,--allow-shlib-undefined > > > > > > -Wl,--dynamic-linker=/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/sysroots-uninative/x86_64-linux/lib/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 > > > > > > -static CROSS_COMPILE=i686-poky-linux- CC=i686-poky-linux-gcc > > > > > > -fuse-ld=bfd -fcanon-prefix-map > > > > > > -fmacro-prefix-map=/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0=/usr/src/debug/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0 > > > > > > > > > > > > -fdebug-prefix-map=/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0=/usr/src/debug/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0 > > > > > > > > > > > > -fmacro-prefix-map=/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0=/usr/src/debug/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0 > > > > > > > > > > > > -fdebug-prefix-map=/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0=/usr/src/debug/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0 > > > > > > > > > > > > -fdebug-prefix-map=/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot= > > > > > > > > > > > > -fmacro-prefix-map=/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot= > > > > > > > > > > > > -fdebug-prefix-map=/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native= > > > > > > -fdebug-prefix-map=/home/pokybui > > > > > d/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work-shared/qemux86/kernel-source=/usr/src/kernel > > > > > > > > > > -fdebug-prefix-map=/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work-shared/qemux86/kernel-build-artifacts=/usr/src/kernel > > > > > LD=i686-poky-linux-ld.bfd AR=i686-poky-linux-ar > > > > > OBJCOPY=i686-poky-linux-objcopy HOSTPKG_CONFIG=pkg-config --static > > > > > CRYPTO_LIBS=-L/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/recipe-sysroot-native/usr/lib/pkgconfig/../../../usr/lib > > > > > -lcrypto -ldl -pthread -C > > > > > /home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work-shared/qemux86/kernel-source > > > > > > > > > > O=/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work-shared/qemux86/kernel-build-artifacts > > > > > prepare > > > > > > make: Entering directory > > > > > > '/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work-shared/qemux86/kernel-source' > > > > > > SYNC include/config/auto.conf > > > > > > GEN Makefile > > > > > > HOSTCC scripts/basic/fixdep > > > > > > /home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/hosttools/ld: > > > > > > cannot find -lc > > > > > > collect2: error: ld returned 1 exit status > > > > > > make[3]: *** > > > > > > [/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work-shared/qemux86/kernel-source/scripts/Makefile.host:111: > > > > > > scripts/basic/fixdep] Error 1 > > > > > > make[2]: *** > > > > > > [/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work-shared/qemux86/kernel-source/Makefile:640: > > > > > > scripts_basic] Error 2 > > > > > > /home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work-shared/qemux86/kernel-source/Makefile:748: > > > > > > include/config/auto.conf: No such file or directory > > > > > > make[1]: *** > > > > > > [/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work-shared/qemux86/kernel-source/Makefile:805: > > > > > > include/config/auto.conf] Error 2 > > > > > > make[1]: *** [include/config/auto.conf] Deleting file > > > > > > 'include/generated/rustc_cfg' > > > > > > make[1]: *** [include/config/auto.conf] Deleting file > > > > > > 'include/generated/autoconf.h' > > > > > > make: *** [Makefile:238: __sub-make] Error 2 > > > > > > make: Leaving directory > > > > > > '/home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work-shared/qemux86/kernel-source' > > > > > > ERROR: oe_runmake failed > > > > > > WARNING: > > > > > > /home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/temp/run.do_configure.169218:195 > > > > > > exit 1 from 'exit 1' > > > > > > WARNING: Backtrace (BB generated script): > > > > > > #1: bbfatal_log, > > > > > > /home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/temp/run.do_configure.169218, > > > > > > line 195 > > > > > > #2: die, > > > > > > /home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/temp/run.do_configure.169218, > > > > > > line 179 > > > > > > #3: oe_runmake, > > > > > > /home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/temp/run.do_configure.169218, > > > > > > line 174 > > > > > > #4: do_configure, > > > > > > /home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/temp/run.do_configure.169218, > > > > > > line 164 > > > > > > #5: main, > > > > > > /home/pokybuild/yocto-worker/pkgman-non-rpm/build/build/tmp/work/qemux86-poky-linux/make-mod-scripts/1.0-r0/temp/run.do_configure.169218, > > > > > > line 208 > > > > > NOTE: recipe make-mod-scripts-1.0-r0: task do_configure: Failed > > > > > > > > > > > It shouldn't be the kernel updates, so I'm assuming something with > > > > > > make-mod-scripts. I'll have a look at it on Thursday. > > > > > > > > > > Yes, it is make-mod-scripts, maybe missing static libraries? > > > > > > > > I was able to build qemux86 on my ubuntu builder, and from the message > > > > it is looking for -lc and not finding it. > > > > > > > > It looks like that was alma linux, so no static c library ? > > > > > > > > I don't have access to anything alma based to test, but I guess a > > > > dependency on a static native glibc might help ? > > > > > > If I understand what is being attempted here, what is being asked for > > > is a static library from the distro the build is running on. We don't > > > build a native glibc (or gcc). > > > > > > It is easy to say "just tell people to install that" but it isn't quite > > > that simple. The work needed off the top of my head is roughly: > > > > > > * add sanity tests to check it is present and error if not > > > * documentation updates to tell people to install it > > > * updating all the autobuilder workers to have it > > > * update buildtools tarball to contain it > > > * release a new buildtools > > > * ensure everything in automated testing uses the new buildtools > > > release > > > > > > so I do have to ask if we really need to add this dependency? > > > > > > > If we want to try and fix the rm_work issues with the output of > > make-mod-scripts via statically linked tools, then I don't see another > > way to do it. Distros that have a static libc don't have the issue of > > course. > > > > If we can't get the static linking working across kernel versions and > > host distros, then we are into the rpathLDPATH or other ideas that > > were floated in the original discussion to save the dynamic libraries > > to the kernel build artifacts directory and then have the scripts be > > able to locate them at runtime. > > > > I do find it strange that -lc isn't being found though, because that > > implies that no one ever does static linking on alma linux .. and that > > doesn't make sense, so maybe there's something else going on that I'm > > missing. > > It implies nobody does that on alma linux without installing the static > library packages. We have minimal installs of the distros on the > autobuilder for this reason so we catch dependency issues like this. >
Aha. So I guess we can drop this for now. I'll revisit the dynamic linking options later in the development cycle. Bruce > Cheers, > > Richard -- - Thou shalt not follow the NULL pointer, for chaos and madness await thee at its end - "Use the force Harry" - Gandalf, Star Trek II
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