HI Nat -

Why is association expensive? It should be no worse than issuing an
artifact. I guess it depends on the underlying implementation.

The point of the association is to eliminate the extra round trip (aka dumb
mode) - however artifact mode by definition requires an extra round trip. I
have not thought about this too deeply, however I don¹t think the
association step adds anything when artifact binding is used.

What is the point of having different request and response artifacts? I
don¹t think that¹s necessary.

At least in Yahoo¹s case, we can probably get by with artifacts/associations
that are well under 255 bytes.  Our OAuth Request Tokens are only 8 bytes,
and that¹s large enough.

Allen



On 2/12/10 10:04 PM, "Nat Sakimura" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Hi Allen, 
> 
> That can be done, but there are a few things to be considered as well. 
> 
> 1) Association is a rather expensive operation. We might not want to do it
> with 
>     every authentication request. 
> 2) Breno wanted to have something like 400 bytes or so to achieve
> statelessness in  255bytes restriction may be too short for him. 
> 3) Breno (and you I think) wanted to have the request artifact and response
> artifact different. 
> 3) This would probably mean that we need to touch the core library in many
> case and arguably has larger impact - which means that we may end up with more
> adoption friction. (BTW, we actually wrote test code in Java, Python, PHP, and
> Ruby to see if the draft can be implemented without touching the core
> library.) 
> 4) In the longer term, I am suspecting that association might be disappearing
> (like it did in Wrap) so depending on it might not be a good idea.  
> 
> In fact, initially, I was thinking the same with you half a year ago, but
> after a while, I have abandoned the idea. Assuming that association happens
> once in every hundreds of authentication request, it just buys me 0.01 round
> trip per authentication request or less. It is going to be even less for a
> large provider. I could probably trade that round trip with the benefit gained
> from the above reasons. That's why I did not piggy back on the association. 
> 
> =nat
>  
> 
> On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 1:39 PM, Allen Tom <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi Nat -
>> 
>> As an optimization, can we combine the association request with the artifact
>> request? In fact, why can¹t the association handle be the artifact?
>> 
>> For example, when the RP requests association, it can pass along all the
>> request parameters that it normally would pass via the browser in the
>> authentication request. The OP can then return the association
>> handle/artifact along with the shared secret.
>> 
>> The RP then redirects the user¹s browser to the OP with the association
>> handle. After the user authenticates, the OP redirects the browser back to
>> the RP with the association handle.
>> 
>> The RP then makes a direct server call back to the OP with the handle (and
>> probably also the shared secret) to fetch the assertion.
>> 
>> I think this scheme will save a couple round trips.
>> 
>> Allen
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 2/11/10 9:55 PM, "Nat Sakimura" <[email protected]
>> <http://[email protected]> > wrote:
>> 
>>> If you look at my manuscript of the Artifact Binding
>>> (http://www.sakimura.org/specs/ab/1.0 )
> 
> 

_______________________________________________
specs mailing list
[email protected]
http://lists.openid.net/mailman/listinfo/openid-specs

Reply via email to