On Sat, May 1, 2021 at 7:42 PM Reginald Beardsley via openindiana-discuss < openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org> wrote:
> > Gparted(1m) on the Live Image worked at one time. Now it does not. But > it's still there despite my raising an issue and the triviality of simply > removing it from the Desktop. I don't recall if the "Getting Started" > document referenced in the GUI installer was ever there. I'd have to boot > disks going back to oi151_a5 to see. The wiki documentation with respect to > updates from version to version is hopelessly out of date. > Most likely because OI is now a rolling release (or at least that's the paradigm development supports the most). The previous documentation is still there for folks who want to run older versions. > > The OI installs are for the most part better than *BSD, *Linux and even > Oracle Solaris. I maintain a system on which I can test OS installs on old > HDDs. Periodically I'll get curious about the state of some OS distro and > do an install, fool around for a while and then label the disk with what's > installed and put in the rack I made to hold them all. I've got 2 dozen IDE > drive in caddies. I don't have a count on SATA drives. I've not been able > to find inexpensive and good quality caddies for those. So I keep those in > anti-static bags in the shipping boxes. Less convenient to count. > > If potential new users have the sort of problems Michelle and I encountered With all OSes, good ideas are to 1) start simple (i.e. with a mainstream installation and default settings) 2) don't fight the distribution's paradigm. Don't try to make the distribution something it's not 3) try to play within the limits of what's well supported. If you need something beyond that, use a different OS that does that thing better 4) when you're frustrated, take a break and work on something easier. This break may last for months or longer. they are not likely to become members of the OI user community. I'd call myself a counterexample to that. OI was the most difficult desktop installation I've ever attempted, and initial stability was terrible. I documented my installation process & doubled the RAM, and neither issue has been a problem since. The size of that community determines the size of the developer community. > Only a small fraction of users have the time, skills and motivation to take > on development/maintenance work. > I agree with this. But I also do think OI does a better job as far as user-facing DE integration than FreeBSD. > > My personal preference is for "all known bugs fixed" release points. Comment specific to OI: OI is a rolling release. Treating it like a gold release OS is fighting the paradigm as I mentioned above. General comment: current gen OSes are so complex and the pace of development is so rapid that "gold" releases no longer exist. In addition to OI, I also run FreeBSD, Debian, Windows 10, Ubuntu, Raspberry Pi OS, and 3 Android distributions. They all have bugs and problems, ranging from the annoying (Google Android's AOD showing temperature in Fahrenheit despite Celsius being selected in the Settings) to the infuriating (a simple shutdown and startup killing FreeBSD DHCP client functionality.) If someone wants to track changes more often then the "pkg update" > mechanism provides that. > Yes. OI pkg update is also - IMO - incredibly robust for what it does on a rolling release compared to the same on FreeBSD using the pkg latest repos. > > Solaris was created to merge Sys V and BSD. So everyone else created > OSF/1, though only DEC shipped it. At this point Sys V and BSD > compatibility is moot. Sun was the last vendor standing, but not for much > longer. Sys V only lives on in Solaris and Illumos so far as I know. > Speaking personally, I run different OSes because I like to see different approaches to the same challenges and also like to be able to speak about them from firsthand experience ... not because I view a certain technology/paradigm as a sacred religious artifact. > > ZFS was at one time a compelling reason to stick with OI, but that's no > longer the case. If you want an open source Unix as opposed to something Unix-like, I do think Illumos is the easiest way to scratch that itch. If you also want an integrated DE, then OI is your ticket (this is why I run it.) It's actually now better documented in FreeBSD. > Both OI and FreeBSD use the same OpenZFS upstream so the documentation specific to ZFS for one works for both ;) I've also found Oracle Solaris 11.4's documentation to work pretty well for my OI ZFS needs since thankfully OpenZFS and Oracle Solaris ZFS function very similarly to each other. I'm often frustrated with OI too, though I don't talk a whole lot about it because 99% of the time I can work around the issue using another OS on a different machine. I don't subscribe to the view as many people seem to that there is One True OS out there that does everything I want. I just use the best (or often easiest) tool for the job. A decent implementation I can easily manage and troubleshoot is much preferred to a technically brilliant implementation I have to look up documentation for every time I want to change something (case in point: services.msc vs. every other service management system in existence). I've had my finger on the trigger for a Mac Mini purchase on many occasions - macOS being a UNIX(TM) - but each time I've been able to talk myself back from that ledge (read: Macs are expensive & macOS' long term support for Apple's own hardware is terrible compared other OSes on arbitrary compatible hardware). OI does have its problems, but I do believe there are quite a few areas in which some folks have made things more difficult for themselves than need be ;) > > Reg > > On Saturday, May 1, 2021, 06:45:55 PM CDT, Till Wegmueller < > toaster...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi Reg > > Hipster is a Rolling release model meaning updates land directly in the > package repositories for each package. > > ISO "Releases" are simply there to mark a point where we look back onto > the last 6 months and can actually see how much has moved. And it's the > point we want to make it as stable as possible so that new people can > install it from the snapshot medias. Historically it was also a point, > where we could snapshot the Repo so people could jump between > publishers, but that has changed. > > -Till > > On 01.05.21 20:05, Reginald Beardsley via openindiana-discuss wrote: > > > > So if I do a "pkg update" after each ISO release I should track the ISOs? > > > > How do I ensure that I pick up new packages in an ISO? Do I specify a > tag? It seems unlikely that the package list would be immutable. > > > > Reg > > > > On Saturday, May 1, 2021, 05:52:51 PM CDT, Alan Coopersmith < > alan.coopersm...@oracle.com> wrote: > > > > On 5/1/21 3:31 PM, Reginald Beardsley via openindiana-discuss wrote: > >> I tried a text-install of 2021.04.30 into an existing 2020.10.31 pool, > but the user information didn't propagate to the new BE. Is this a bug, > install mistake or the wrong way to update? > > > > The wrong way to update. Install media is for fresh installs only. > > Updates are done via "pkg update". > > > > _______________________________________________ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > > _______________________________________________ > openindiana-discuss mailing list > openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org > https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss > _______________________________________________ openindiana-discuss mailing list openindiana-discuss@openindiana.org https://openindiana.org/mailman/listinfo/openindiana-discuss
