> auto updating so people can easily release patch updates

Checkout getdown => http://code.google.com/p/getdown/.  

It's simple, proven open source tech used to distribute the Puzzle Pirates 
MMORPG which had 4 million accounts and 250 million hours of play time in 2008.
Forking getdown, swapping out its existing thin Swing UI and replacing it with 
a configurable JavaFX UI is likely a pretty easy process.
Some additional work would need to be done to integrate it into modern 
build/deploy tool chains such as the javafx maven and gradle plugins.

I think it makes sense for the native bundling option where the combination of 
the two allows (IMO) a reasonable replacement for webstart.

Replacing applets is more difficult, you probably want to use something like 
CacioWeb or have cloud based logic and some rendering with a streaming protocol 
to the browser and final rendering inside an html5 canvas, but that kind of 
technology does not exist for JavaFX as far as I know.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net 
[mailto:openjfx-dev-boun...@openjdk.java.net] On Behalf Of Mario Torre
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 3:10 PM
To: Daniel Zwolenski
Cc: mike.ehrenberg@barchart.comEhrenberg; openjfx-dev@openjdk.java.net; 
JeremyJongsma
Subject: Re: Java Deployment (was Re: JavaFX 8 Progress)

For Swing you can actually use CacioWeb, works quite well. Zero deployment, no 
VM needed, no plugin, just an HTML 5 capable browser.

Doesn't work with JavaFX unfortunately.

Cheers,
Mario

Il giorno 19/lug/2013 00:03, "Daniel Zwolenski" <zon...@gmail.com> ha
scritto:
>
> There are definitely credible alternatives. The problem is currently 
> the
alternatives are not implemented well enough so web still ends up a contender 
just by being the only one able to stand up.
>
> And for the record I build both public facing apps and back-office 
> apps
and web deploy does not work well for either. I stopped using jfx because of 
deployment. I now build only webapps because of deployment.
>
> Credible alternatives:
>
> 1. Native bundlers, but we need:
> - auto updating so people can easily release patch updates
> - smaller co-bundled jre's so that the initial download and install is
smooth and quick
> - better build tools to make this easier to integrate into a standard
build process, with some solution for cross-platform build support or to at 
least minimize the pain
>
> 2. App stores:
> - ready to go right now for Mac but we don't have the tools and I 
> think
we need everything fully open sourced for licensing reasons (hard to say)
> - need to either pick one of the unofficial win app stores for 
> pre-win8
support (there's a few), or build our own app store
> - we just need tools for building and deploying to app stores (not 
> that
hard) and cut down jre sizes again (app stores are an extension of cobundling 
approach).
>
> 3. Self-hosted 'app store' for corporate settings. install a small,
native client on the machine that allows that user to download and install apps 
from your private server, with auto-updating, etc
> - we need to build one, not that hard, maybe a month or two of work to
get a first working version out. I would have built one by now but because jfx 
packaging tools are so bad I've burnt up all my spare time just putting 
wrappers around these to get the most basic of maven plugins to work.
>
> All of the above could have been implemented by now if there was just 
> a
little bit of love in this area. One resource ticking away would have been 
enough to get something going. As it stands there has been zero, nada, zip 
changes into anything other than web/security deployment efforts over the last 
year. J8 due next year (!) will not include any of the above, or even any 
simple improvements to deployment approaches other than web, to the best of my 
knowledge.
>
>
>
> On 19/07/2013, at 7:30 AM, Mark Fortner <phidia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I've heard the "webstart is broke, don't fix it, move on" song 
> > before
from a number of people.  What I haven't heard is a credible solution to 
solving the very real problem of keeping an app up-to-date in a corporate 
setting.  For the most part, I agree that if you're in the business of selling 
commercial software, selling and distributing through an app store probably 
makes sense for you. Although I wouldn't relish having to build on all of those 
platforms.
> >
> > However, posting proprietary apps to external OS-specific app stores
doesn't really work for anyone in a corporate setting.  Neither does making a 
user re-install an application every time you post a bug fix.  In addition, 
many corporations limit the privileges they give users.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Mark
> >
> >

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