Thanks Benjamin, We studied those products you mentioned when designing HPR and, yes, there is extensive use of shaders and much more utilisation of the GPU in general.
We also have the beginnings of a Vulkan-only version written in (coincidentally) Rust which is showing amazing promise. Vulkan is something we are investing a lot of research and effort into. Felix > On 25 Nov. 2016, at 22:25, Benjamin Gudehus <hasteb...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Wow, thanks for all the great work (Felix and Laurent)! Marlin and HPR seem > to really fit into what needs to be done to improve the performance. > > Speaking of the Vulkan API: Does HPR use shaders to optimize the rendering or > does this only apply to rasterization (i.e. Marlin)? > > Webrender and Servo (by Mozilla written in Rust) use GPU shaders a lot, along > with parallelized DOM (scene graph) access, aggressive culling and caching > and batching. > > --Benjamin > >> On Fri, Nov 25, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Tobias Bley <b...@jpro.io> wrote: >> Hi, >> >> @Felix: Is there any Github project, demo video or trial to test HPR with >> JavaFX? >> >> Best regards, >> Tobi >> >> >> >> >> > Am 11.11.2016 um 12:08 schrieb Felix Bembrick <felix.bembr...@gmail.com>: >> > >> > Thanks Laurent, >> > >> > That's another thing we discovered: using Java itself in the most >> > performant way can help a lot. >> > >> > It can be tricky, but profiling can often highlight various patterns of >> > object instantiation that show-up red flags and can lead you directly to >> > regions of the code that can be refactored to be significantly more >> > efficient. >> > >> > Also, the often overlooked GC log analysis can lead to similar discoveries >> > and remedies. >> > >> > Blessings, >> > >> > Felix >> > >> >> On 11 Nov. 2016, at 21:55, Laurent Bourgès <bourges.laur...@gmail.com> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi, >> >> >> >> To optimize Pisces that became the Marlin rasterizer, I carefully avoided >> >> any both array allocation (byte/int/float pools) and also reduced array >> >> copies or clean up ie only clear dirty parts. >> >> >> >> This approach is generic and could be applied in other critical places of >> >> the rendering pipelines. >> >> >> >> FYI here are my fosdem 2016 slides on the Marlin renderer: >> >> https://bourgesl.github.io/fosdem-2016/slides/fosdem-2016-Marlin.pdf >> >> >> >> Of course I would be happy to share my experience and work with a tiger >> >> team on optimizing JavaFX graphics. >> >> >> >> However I would like getting sort of sponsoring for my potential >> >> contributions... >> >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Laurent >> >> >> >> Le 11 nov. 2016 11:29, "Tobi" <t...@ultramixer.com> a écrit : >> >>> >> >>> Hi, >> >>> >> >>> thanks Felix, Laurent and Chris for sharing your stuff with the >> >>> community! >> >>> >> >>> I am happy to see starting a discussion about boosting up the JavaFX >> >>> rendering performance. I can confirm that the performance of JavaFX >> >>> scene graph is not there where it should be. So multithreading would be >> >>> an excellent, but difficult approach. >> >>> >> >>> Felix, concerning your research of other toolkits: Do they all use >> >>> multithreading or are there any toolkits which use single threading but >> >>> are faster than JavaFX? >> >>> >> >>> So maybe there are other points than multithreading where we can boost >> >>> the performance? >> >>> >> >>> 2) your HPR sounds great. Did you already try DemoFX (part 3) benchmark >> >>> with your HPR? >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Best regards, >> >>> Tobi >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> Am 10.11.2016 um 19:11 schrieb Felix Bembrick >> >>>> <felix.bembr...@gmail.com>: >> >>>> >> >>>> (Thanks to Kevin for lifting my "awaiting moderation" impasse). >> >>>> >> >>>> So, with all the recent discussions regarding the great contribution by >> >>>> Laurent Bourgès of MarlinFX, it was suggested that a separate thread be >> >>>> started to discuss parallelisation of the JavaFX rendering pipeline in >> >>>> general. >> >>>> >> >>>> As has been correctly pointed-out, converting or modifying the existing >> >>>> rendering pipeline into a fully multi-threaded and performant beast is >> >>>> indeed quite a complex task. >> >>>> >> >>>> But, that's exactly what myself and my colleagues have been working on >> >>>> for >> >>>> about 2 years. >> >>>> >> >>>> The result is what we call the Hyper Rendering Pipeline (HPR). >> >>>> >> >>>> Work on HPR started when we developed FXMark and were (bitterly) >> >>>> disappointed with the performance of the JavaFX scene graph. Many >> >>>> JavaFX >> >>>> developers have blogged about the need to dramatically minimise the >> >>>> number >> >>>> of nodes (especially on embedded devices) in order to achieve even >> >>>> "acceptable" performance. Often it is the case that most (if not all >> >>>> rendering) is eventually done in a single Canvas node. >> >>>> >> >>>> Now, as well already know, the JavaFX Canvas does perform very well and >> >>>> the >> >>>> recent awesome work (DemoFX) by Chris Newland, just for example, shows >> >>>> what >> >>>> can be done with this one node. >> >>>> >> >>>> But, the majority of the animation plumbing in JavaFX is related to the >> >>>> scene graph itself and is designed to make use of multiple nodes and >> >>>> node >> >>>> types. At the moment, the performance of this scene graph is the >> >>>> Achilles >> >>>> Heel of JavaFX (or at least one of them). >> >>>> >> >>>> Enter HPR. >> >>>> >> >>>> I personally have worked with a number of hardware-accelerated toolkits >> >>>> over the years and am astounded by just how sluggish the rendering >> >>>> pipeline >> >>>> for JavaFX is. When I am animating just a couple of hundred nodes using >> >>>> JavaFX and transitions, I am lucky to get more than about 30 FPS, but on >> >>>> the same (very powerful) machine, I can use other toolkits to render >> >>>> thousands of "objects" and achieve frame rates well over 1000 FPS. >> >>>> >> >>>> So, we refactored the entire scene graph rendering pipeline with the >> >>>> following goals and principles: >> >>>> >> >>>> 1. It is written using JavaFX 9 and Java 9 (but could theoretically be >> >>>> back-ported to JavaFX 8 though I see no reason to). >> >>>> >> >>>> 2. We analysed how other toolkits had optimised their own rendering >> >>>> pipelines (especially Qt which has made some significant advances in >> >>>> this >> >>>> area in recent years). We also analysed recent examples of >> >>>> multi-threaded >> >>>> rendering using the new Vulkan API. >> >>>> >> >>>> 3. We carefully analysed and determined which parts of the pipeline >> >>>> should >> >>>> best utilise the CPU and which parts should best utilise the GPU. >> >>>> >> >>>> 4. For those parts most suited to the CPU, we use the advanced >> >>>> concurrency >> >>>> features of Java 8/9 to maximise parallelisation and throughput by >> >>>> utilising multiple cores & threads in as an efficient manner as >> >>>> possible. >> >>>> >> >>>> 5. We devoted a large amount of time to optimising the "communication" >> >>>> between the CPU and GPU to be far less "chatty" and this alone led to >> >>>> some >> >>>> huge performance gains. >> >>>> >> >>>> 6. We also looked at the structure of the scene graph itself and after >> >>>> studying products such as OpenSceneGraph, we refactored the JavaFX scene >> >>>> graph in such a way that it lends itself to optimised rendering much >> >>>> more >> >>>> easily. >> >>>> >> >>>> 7. This is clearly not a "small" patch. In fact to refer to it as a >> >>>> "patch" is probably rather inappropriate. >> >>>> >> >>>> The end result is that we now have a fully-functional prototype of HPR >> >>>> and, >> >>>> already, we are seeing very significant performance improvements. >> >>>> >> >>>> At the minimum, scene graph rendering performance has improved by 500% >> >>>> and, >> >>>> with judicious and sometimes "tricky" use of caching, we have seen >> >>>> improvements in performance of 10x or more. >> >>>> >> >>>> And... we are only just *starting* with the performance optimisation >> >>>> phase. >> >>>> >> >>>> The potential for HPR is massive as it opens-up the possibility for the >> >>>> JavaFX scene graph and the animation/transition infrastructure to be >> >>>> used >> >>>> for a whole new class of applications including games, advanced >> >>>> visualisations etc., without having to rely on imperative programming >> >>>> of a >> >>>> single Canvas node. >> >>>> >> >>>> I believe that HPR, along with tremendous recent developments like JPro >> >>>> and >> >>>> the outstanding work by Gluon on mobiles and embedded devices, could >> >>>> position JavaFX to be the best graphics toolkit of any kind in any >> >>>> language >> >>>> and, be the ONLY *truly* cross-platform graphics technology available. >> >>>> >> >>>> WORA for graphics and UIs is finally within reach! >> >>>> >> >>>> Blessings, >> >>>> >> >>>> Felix >> >>> >> >
