Hi, The documentation in my mind was not about autotools, make, or c/c++ development. There are zillions of pages/books/manuals describing these. The only missing part is the one describing the openmoko development, i.e., - what are the openmoko related .bb files, - configuration files, - a quick start guide (for people who already know what linux is, programming in C, writing a makefile, general understanding of autoconf, preferably written code with gtk/gnome/bonobo/or whatever technology they are gonna use in their implementation), - simply (and correctly) what needs to be done to port an application to openmoko, - where is the file to edit, for example to add a button to the openmoko-mediaplayer, - how can one prevent the mokomakefile to overwrite the changes he's done, - what makefile commands (or whatever) should one use to generate an ipk which reflects his latest changes, - where is the final ipk or the binary file resides, - what's the way to include/exclude a newly added package to/from the final rootfs, - and other questions like this,
emre On 8/29/07, Robert Schuster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi, > AFAIK OpenMoko will employ someone to fix OE- and OM- related issues. > > Maybe this gal/guy will also provide the information for 3rd developers > you want: > > - "how to port an already existing autotools project to openmoko", > > - "how to extend an already existing openmoko application", > > - "how to extend the openembedded specific code", > > - "how to write new openmoko applications", > > - "how to commit your changes/additions to the openmoko & openembedded > > repositories." > > Still much of the above information can be learned by looking at the BB > files. However think about this: If you don't have autotools knowledge > you will have a hard time understanding e.g. autotools.bbclass. It is > all very complex because it can achieve so much. > > There is an OE manual somewhere on openembedded.org which the OE devs > can edit. I would love to see this being turned into a real wiki (with > anonymous write access like wikibooks). Then we can probably write the > most comprehensive book about free software-based embedded software > development. Imagine a book that covers aspects from: > - diff/patch, quilt > - cvs/svn/hg/git/mtn usage > - makefile/scons/cmake > - autoconf, automake, libtool > - linux kernel compilation > - uboot, redboot, ... > - gnu toolchains > - bitbake, openembedded > - building & packaging c/c++/perl/python/ruby/java/... programs and > their libraries (and runtimes) > > (This being an *incomplete* list of technologies one should have > understanding of.) > > Such a book would be a jewel for the community. ATM one can get this > only by buying many separate books (some of those are even under open > content licenses). > > Regards > Robert > > > On 8/29/07, Robert Schuster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> Hi Jim, hi list, > >>>>> people who do not understand the OE setup > >>>> Start with fixing that :) > >>>> > >>> I know that was somewhat meant in jest, but as mentioned at current this > >>> is pretty frustrating. > >>> > >>> So you really think that every person who would like to develop for > >>> OpenMoko should be able to understand the OE setup? Please tell me how > >>> understanding the build system helps them to write their application. > >> You dont need to understand the OE setup to 'write an application'. You > >> need to understand it, if you want to package it and put it on the root > >> image. > >> > >>> And for the converse: how hard is it really for someone, you for > >>> example, to write a step-by-step set of instructions to explain how > >>> someone with an application already written may get it on to the neo > >>> with the minimum of their effort? > >> AFAIK the EXTRA_RDEPENDS_DISTRO thing works (remember to rebuild > >> task-base) but is considered unclean. So if breaking the rules and > >> possibly creating a too large image is ok, that is your solution. (Btw: > >> You can get around the size limitation a bit if you set up your Neo to > >> boot from the SD card). > >> > >>> Wanting people to know everything about everything is a noble idea but > >>> when those people have limited time resources then spending that time in > >>> places other than where they are best qualified is nothing short of > >>> wasteful. > >> For around 1.5 years I am playing with OpenEmbedded from time to time. I > >> still don't get many things but it is getting better. However the reason > >> for this slow progress on my side isnt because OE is shit. It is because > >> the functionality it delivers is unbelievable big: OE allows you to > >> build a complete GNU/Linux distribution from scratch with only one > >> command (e.g. bitbake openmoko-devel-image). One person can do what > >> would otherwise require a strong development team (think of all the > >> different roles involved in the Debian packaging process). Moreover you > >> cannot only build a GNU/Linux for a limited set of devices (like > >> OpenWRT/FreeWRT). You can target nearly everything that is supported by > >> GNU Toolchains, Bootloaders and Linux Kernels (and that is a lot). > >> > >> On a similar topic: People are mourning about the complexity of the > >> autotools for ages but if you look at the BB files of packages using > >> them you will see that they are usually the smallest. All of those > >> handwritten makefiles and uberbuild systems require some special > >> treatment and often need to made aware of crosscompiling. > >> > >> In your own interest you should spend time in learning at least some > >> basics of OE. The time is invested very well. > >> > >> Regards > >> Robert > >> > >> -- > >> tarent Gesellschaft für Softwareentwicklung und IT-Beratung mbH > >> > >> Heilsbachstr. 24, 53123 Bonn | Poststr. 4-5, 10178 Berlin > >> fon: +49(228) / 52675-0 | fon: +49(30) / 27594853 > >> fax: +49(228) / 52675-25 | fax: +49(30) / 78709617 > >> durchwahl: +49(228) / 52675-17 | mobil: +49(171) / 7673249 > >> > >> Geschäftsführer: > >> Boris Esser, Elmar Geese, Thomas Müller-Ackermann > >> HRB AG Bonn 5168 > >> Ust-ID: DE122264941 > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > tarent Gesellschaft für Softwareentwicklung und IT-Beratung mbH > > Heilsbachstr. 24, 53123 Bonn | Poststr. 4-5, 10178 Berlin > fon: +49(228) / 52675-0 | fon: +49(30) / 27594853 > fax: +49(228) / 52675-25 | fax: +49(30) / 78709617 > durchwahl: +49(228) / 52675-17 | mobil: +49(171) / 7673249 > > Geschäftsführer: > Boris Esser, Elmar Geese, Thomas Müller-Ackermann > HRB AG Bonn 5168 > Ust-ID: DE122264941 > > >
