Yes, I think the biggest priority is patching OpenSim - I think we already have 
more than enough bug reports :)

OpenSim caters to both framework and operators directly (albeit with some facilities such as groups and profiles left to third party code). I don't think this should change until the ecosystem becomes bigger.

On 04/08/11 15:02, Nomura Makiko wrote:
Hi Justin!

Yes, the portal is already divided, not yet each contents though... Fritigern 
suggests me dividing all of them too.

To say about priority, I personally think until 0.7.2 is officially launched, 
the most appreciated task would be testing, reporting and submitting patch as 
many as possible, if they can do that. I am also going to use my most energy 
into re-checking old existing bugs and fixing them (if I have time to do that 
before releasing ... perhaps really tight to me) at least, for a few months. 
And I am not a superhuman to do both hard job of wiki restructuring and mantis 
cleaning at the same time. So anyway for me I have no plan to implement my idea 
for a several months or a year. I'd like to hear people thought of wiki or 
documentation until I check most of existing issues and can change my priority 
back to  documentation activities. Again, just as for me. I don't know if 
Fritigern will do that immediately or not. He seems to find his place in 
OpenSimulator wiki and struggling to find a way to contribute in it.

Regarding "linking", as you might concern, the risk of having spam links will 
way increase. Yes, I as wiki sysop here worry about this kind of nightmare... I think 
initial contents will take on important role in keeping it relating OpenSimulator. Thus 
if we introduce it, we'd better gather some links first, using opensim-user mailing list 
or such, before creating dictionary page.

I still think we'd better put our focus in creating documentations for "Framework Users", as I have 
written in my wiki page (http://opensimulator.org/wiki/User:Makopoppo#My_thought_about_OpenSimulator). 
However, as I read mails posted yesterday and today, I feel that the guide for "Grid Users" (or the 
way to accessing to them)  is still missing now. Or we'd better recommend our kin software (Aurora-Sim, Diva 
Distro or such) to the people for personal use instead of lecturing the "guts" of installation of 
OpenSim core?


On 2011/08/04, at 12:24, Justin Clark-Casey wrote:

Hi Makopoppo.  Nice to see you on the list.

I have to say, I'm not in favour of reorganising the wiki structure at this 
time.  We already have a users and developers division.  As you say, client 
users are out of focus and I think this is likely to remain so.  Running 
OpenSim is always going to be a very technical task by most people's standards. 
 It's an order of complexity more difficult than running a webserver, for 
instance, and those aren't touched by everyday users.

I think that by far the better use of time is improving documentation.  
Although I've gradually [re]written quite a lot over the past year, I'm sure 
there's still a lot which is incompletely, completely missing or actively 
misleading (as you hint).  Unfortunately, the combination of doc writing and 
technical chops is a rare one so I think this will only slowly improve over 
time.

Linking to other documents on the web is definitely encouraged.  But this is an 
OpenSimulator wiki, so only topics that relate to OpenSimulator are 
appropriate.  If someone wants to start a general wiki then I think that would 
be better at a separate site.

On 03/08/11 18:05, Makiko Nomura (Makopoppo) wrote:
Hi, nice to meet you all. I'm Makopoppo.

In OpenSimulator Wiki, Fritigern told me his idea about dividing wiki into user 
parts and developer parts.
http://opensimulator.org/wiki/User_talk:Makopoppo#An_Idea_Which_Has_Been_On_My_Mind_For_Some_Time

It would be nice to implement it. And more, I'd like to hear your thought about 
wiki future as well, especially if you
haven't use OpenSimulator wiki ever or recently. (This is rather my personal 
activity than as a wiki admin job)

Here is my idea about what OpenSimulator wiki will be:

* The definition of "User"

OpenSimulator software, as itself, is a framework for 3D virtual environment. 
It can be included into enterprise
systems; i.e. some might want to bundle it into their web servers, groupwares, 
or such. Some wants to create their own
kins for their use. Some wants to simply use this distribution out-of-the-box. 
Some doesn't want to own their sims, just
wants to connect to them from their viewers. All of them are "Users". They will 
be categorized into three types:

Client Users: Who connects to (or logins to) OpenSimulator-based grids with 
their viewer, websites, or some other
possible methods. They don't need any computer-specific knowledges, they can be 
teenagers, or even infants.
Documentation for them might be out of focus of OpenSimulator project, it is 
rather client vendor's area, but having
minimal instruction and links to their document for further information is not 
so bad idea.

Grid Users: Who connects their OpenSimulator-based regions to 
OpenSimulator-based grids, or just using it standalone.
They needs minimal knowledge of operation systems, databases, or some other 
related softwares such as web servers to run
their own simulators. Since there are already many resources for them, and 
especially for personal use, kins projects
doing great job to make clear documents, maintain them and providing support 
for years. We can encourage or help them to
improve their documents, such as, providing link list to their pages, or 
bollowing their article with huge credits.

Framework Users: Who enhances OpenSimulator software for their use. The purpose 
varies amongst each other, from personal
use to enterprise use. For example, the person who implements *Module, script 
functions, connectors or such. To say in
another word, who using OpenSimulator as a framework. I personally think that 
one of the role of our OpenSimulator core
project is provider of the best documentation for them. And I know currently we 
don't have enough documents for them, or
if exists, it hasn't been maintenanced for years.

So, who will be the "Developers"? It will be the contributors who contributes 
OpenSimulator framework itself. They
should know OpenSim internal architectures, implementing guidelines, or 
licensing matters. Some experts can understand
them only by reading codes (yikes!), but it would be nice to have such 
documents, if we can keep updating them forever.

* Possible Wiki Structure

Considering these points above, we can divide the wiki into three domains:

http://opensimulator.org/<-- for "Client Users" and "Grid Users"
http://framework.opensimulator.org/<-- for "Framework Users"
http://dev.opensimulator.org/<-- for the contributors of OpenSimulator core 
project (coders, document writers, issue
managers, wiki admins)

Although MediaWiki can create namespaces and we can use it for this purpose, I 
feel sub-domaining provides more
straight-forward way to access to them (this is probably because I am an 
address bar lover). Again, this is just my idea.

* Should we create anything on our own?

I personally think we don't need to "reinvent the wheel" to create all 
OpenSimulator documentation from the scratch,
there are already nice documents all around the web. Why not make great use of 
them? I don't mean we can copyright
violations and bring them all. Instead, it would be nice to have links to their 
project websites with simple
descriptions about their project goal or feature on our wiki pages. Or, using 
their documents with big credit would be
nice too(Cons is duplicated documentation will be more difficult to 
maintenance).

I wonder why kin projects (i.e. OSGrids, Inworlds, AuroraSim, …) are not 
feathered as kin developers. They are the good
OpenSimulator framework users and the good OpenSimulator "User" documents 
provider. And communities. I know there are
many other OpenSimulator-forums and many experts grandly help so-called 
"noobs". We can encourage and help them to
support others in their community, such as, again, adding link to their forums. 
Blogs too. I came here looking at a post
in ilibsl blog. I had a parcel in Ener Sounds(http://iliveisl.com/makos-home/ 
is me), and after leaving there, I found
OpenSimulator in another post and tried to use it (to reproduce the terrain of 
Ener Sounds in vain lol). That was the
start. OpenSimulator developers including me tends to detailed describe about 
the architectures, but for users, the
documents created by the users will be helpful. It might be not the best way, 
since the users have to access each blogs
and forums to find the answer for their question, but if OpenSimulator core 
wiki has nice directory to find them easily,
it can be ideal. (I feel someone might have suggested the same before, but I 
can't remember who)

It shouldn't keep contributors from writing such documents in OpenSimulator 
Wiki. Our purpose are varies, so it should
be always open for those who wants to contribute the articles. But if we can create the 
scheme of "Mash-up" the
OpenSimulator-related documentations, OpenSimulator community (includes kin 
projects, blogs, forums or such) will
accurate toward mature community as a whole.

Thank you for reading. *Steps down from soapbox*
Again, comments will be appreciated.

------

Makopoppo (Makiko Nomura)



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http://twitter.com/justincc
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