Some do; some don't. Glenn
Note: Sent from my cell phone. The opinions and thoughts in this email are my own and do not reflect those of any other person or organization. > On Nov 10, 2015, at 7:58 PM, Melanie <[email protected]> wrote: > > Correct. They also have FUNDING. The apache foundation has lot of > paid permanent staff, as well as money for bounties and hired > programmers. > > Of course they can have the luxury of a roadmap. > > Same goes for other projects that do that level of organization. > > - Melanie > >> On 11/11/2015 01:53, Glenn Martin wrote: >> To me, this has always been the major weakness of open source software. >> I've seen this on many other projects. There is a "core" in charge but, >> ultimately, they focus only on things that they need for their work. When >> somebody suggests a feature, the response is usually of the form "that >> would be a great addition! If you could code that up, please submit it". >> I completely understand the feeling there, but it's hard to build up a >> major user base that way (the projects continue to stay in "toy" phase). >> >> The truly successful open source projects DO have a roadmap and they DO >> code towards it. They are real projects that just happen to be open source. >> >> Glenn >> >> >> NOTICE: The opinions and thoughts in this email are my own and do not >> reflect those of any other person or organization. >> >> >>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Melanie <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> You keep on about organizational things like a defined roadmap and >>> documentation. These are things generally produced by organized and >>> PAID bodies. >>> >>> Core is a team of developers who just as soon let the code do the >>> talking. Few of us have any talent for doing big writeups and these >>> few are doing other things that take up their time, mostly in academia. >>> >>> Core is consensus-based and there is no "boss" to set out a roadmap >>> everyone else has to follow. We all volunteer our time and >>> creativity for this project and to most of us, this is a >>> recreational activity, not work. >>> >>> Admittedly, the project could profit from some guidance, but that >>> same guidance would likely lead to a loss of active developers, as >>> people who volunteer their time want to do what they like to do, not >>> what some roadmap tells them to. This discussion has been had before. >>> >>> If it were at all possible, I would certainly take up that mantle, >>> but that would dis-mantle the team as it stands now. The current >>> team isn't interested in fulfilling expectations other than those of >>> their own and the users they are working with. >>> >>> For most of the team, that is users of social virtual worlds who >>> could care less about accurate stats, but do care about three green >>> lights on the lag meter. They actually don't even care if the stats >>> show 11 or 55, as long as the lag meter is green. >>> >>> I have had people (in other grids) tell me "This place is so >>> laggy!". I then would move my avatar around to test responsiveness >>> and find that there is no lag, so I would ask them "Why do you >>> consider this laggy? I can't see any lag?" and get "The lag meter >>> shows the sim is lagging" as a reply. These people, several people >>> in multiple grids, then announced to be going back to SL where there >>> is no lag. >>> >>> Go figure. >>> >>> We are there to make things work for the majority of our users. >>> Sorry to say, MOSES and scientists are not a majority. The thousands >>> of social grid users spread across all the virtual worlds are. >>> >>> - Melanie >>> >>>> On 11/11/2015 00:44, dz wrote: >>>> I am astounded at how much of the dialogue about this issue you both >>>> choose to ignore. >>>> >>>> Please publish the location of the ROADMAP of REAL CORE problems.... I >>>> will be happy to attend the MOSES meetings and attempt to get those >>>> issues on their agenda. Don't blame people for working on the things >>>> that are important to them when that is the example set by core over a >>> long >>>> period. You expect people to help and then denegrate them for not >>>> attacking the problems you REFUSE to document and share in public. >>>> >>>> When did MOSES get access to commit the patch??? The patch was >>>> accepted after a significant amount of conversation... Everyone BUT >>>> you and Melanie voted it +1... you can't rewrite the history and >>> assert >>>> that the problem is because MOSES committed a patch... CORE committed >>> the >>>> patch at the request of this community. >>>> >>>> I have repeatedly asked for the identification of these mysterious users >>>> who are the source of this avalanche of complaints... I apologize for >>>> assuming they resided on Melanies grid... >>>> Now that I hear that her users aren't the source of the complaints >>>> I'm left to wonder if there is ANY justification for reverting the >>>> stats.. PLEASE share with the group what the source of these complaints >>> is >>>> so we can begin a dialogue. I participate in a LOT of OpenSim related >>>> forums just for that purpose... I haven't seen any of the noise >>>> that is supposedly deafening. >>>> >>>> Assuming "they" truly are upset, I haven't herd a peep about why it >>> is >>>> appropriate for some backroom decision to override the consensus built >>> in >>>> this forum over a period of months. >>>> I'm sorry, I've tried repeatedly to figure out WHY it is important to >>>> revert, and all I keep hearing is "Melanie didnt know it would >>> affect a >>>> lag meter".. This argument was extended to include " We have to >>>> accommodate users of viewers that are NO LONGER being maintained"... >>>> HOW in the world can that be a viable position for you to defend Neb, >>>> when your rant was directed at the importance of moving forward with >>>> viewer developers or we are dead...?? >>>> >>>> I really am trying to figure this out, but all I see as responses >>> is >>>> "You are wrong, I changed my mind, it is import to someone who >>>> still hasn't spoken on this list" The whole point of this list is to >>>> share the issues that are important.... Given the volume of traffic on >>> the >>>> subject, it obviously is. Please share some REAL information about >>>> the actual impact so we can re-evaluate the needs of the WHOLE >>> community. >>>> We don't know WHO is complaining,, We HAVE heard that you can >>>> turn the blinking lights into numeric representations ( even in the OLD >>>> meters), We HAVE heard that there is a JIRA for the viewer team to >>>> remove/update the functioning of the lag meter.. Everyone agrees >>> that >>>> the lag meter cant possibly be correct so I find it impossible to >>>> believe that it is INTEGRAL to the success of Opensim. All of use >>> who >>>> wanted accurate stats could be wrong, but I'd sure like to know >>> WHY, >>>> not just have someone pronounce we are and implement yet another >>>> obscure INI variable.. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Doug I participated in MOSES grid as well and my experience there was >>>>> terrible, far worse performance than i experienced in any other grid, I >>>>> took part in the FCVW build and planning and experienced a multitude of >>>>> problems on MOSES platform that just do not exist in the core >>> opensimulator >>>>> software. And this is what I mean by chasing ghosts, MOSES is fixing >>> bugs >>>>> in MOSES for MOSES that just do not exist in the core software. You can >>>>> feel however you want and if you feel embarrassed then go work on MOSES >>>>> software, no one is stopping you. I do agree though that this whole >>> thing >>>>> is quite a huge embarrassment for the project. It still does not change >>>>> the fact that to date no improvements have come from this change and all >>>>> its done is cause arguments, the reason their code was not accepted is >>>>> because it was not suitable for core, end of story. They wanted us to >>>>> accept patches unconditionally and sorry, that is not going to happen. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Opensim-dev mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Opensim-dev mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev > > _______________________________________________ > Opensim-dev mailing list > [email protected] > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev _______________________________________________ Opensim-dev mailing list [email protected] http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
