Thanks, I'll go ahead with option C for the moment.
You say you have your DA advert rate set to 20 seconds. Given that the
SLPDKnownDAPassiveDAAdvert is called at the SIGALRM rate (15 seconds), I
would expect your DA adverts to actually go out every 45 seconds due to the
way the function is written (15s after the last DA advert is sent, the
nextPassiveDAAdvert value is 20, so it's not sent out, after 30s the value
is 5, so it's still not sent out, and after 45s the value is -15 so it gets
sent out, and the value is reset to 20). I think a better algorithm is to
subtract the seconds value first, and to add the advert rate after sending.
That way the average advert rate would be correct although the granularity
would be 15s (with your 20s rate, you should get one after 30s, then 15s
then 15s, then 30s again etc.). I'll need to do something like that to
ensure I get the expected rate.
I'd like to move to an uptodate version rather than putting patches on 1.2.1
- are there any major issues I should be aware about with the current trunk
(I took a snapshot a couple of days ago) ?
--Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Wagner [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 20 September 2007 15:24
To: Morrell Richard
Cc: openslp-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Openslp-devel] Problem with uncontrolled loss of DAs
You're right about my alternate suggestion. I had a different system setup
in mind.
I like option C the best. On my systems it's important that DAs are
discovered quickly, so my configured DA advert rate is already at 20 seconds
-- so I'm not too worried about the advert overhead, and recovery from a
premature drop is quick if this mechanism is used.
I don't know what the other developers think, but I say go for it.
--Nick
On 9/20/07, Morrell Richard < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote:
Thanks for the feedback.
Ideally, we would like to detect invalid DAs within a minute or so. I know
that sounds ambitious, but our base networking is Gigabit ethernet, our
backbone is 10Gbit, and our systems have less than 30 DAs (although we have
a couple of hundred "slave" SAs), so the additional load of querying for
option B is acceptable (option A has the same number of replies, but fewer
request messages as it would use multicast). We use very aggressive
timeouts, and our searches usually complete anyway within a few milliseconds
(or a few tens of milliseconds in the worst case).
In option A, I had originally thought that the normal multicast algorithm
was used, in which case subsequent messages would include an increasing
responders list. However, on more detailed inspection of the code, I
realise that active discovery is a single-shot multicast send with no
retransmits, so it is not really suitable for our purposes.
I'm not clear how your alternate suggestion would work. My understanding
from looking at the code is that the library sends registration requests
only to the local SLP daemon (although the comments for NetworkConnectToSA
suggest that the cached socket, handle->sasock, can be connected directly to
a DA/SA, the only place that I can find that handle->sasock is set up is
from a call to NetworkConnectToSlpd), and as I understand it, the local SLP
daemon will reject registrations that are not in its scope.
I have also had a thought about an option C. If each DA periodically sent
out a multicast DAAdvert (a heartbeat) at a rate of, say, three times the
inactive DA check rate, the daemon could remember whether it had received an
advert for each known DA since the last check, and remove those DAs it
hadn't heard from. This would involve the least additional traffic, and
probably the least additional load on the daemons. The risk of losing a DA
incorrectly would be higher than the risk from the unicast option (which
does up to five retransmits), or similar if we used a rate of five times the
check rate. This mechanism would also be likely to recover from an
incorrect removal more quickly than option B, which would have to rely on
active DA discovery to re-find the DA (although this could probably be
tuned). The periodic sending would be dependent on having a configured
check period, which would default to disabled.
Thinking about it, this option seems to have a lot going for it. What do
you think ?
--Richard
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Wagner [mailto: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 19 September 2007 17:47
To: Morrell Richard
Cc: openslp-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
<mailto:openslp-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
Subject: Re: [Openslp-devel] Problem with uncontrolled loss of DAs
In my systems everyone is on the same scope, so I haven't run into this
problem (and why I would prefer that any added mechanism would be disabled
by default). I'm a little curious as to how often multiple scopes are
actually used, and are used in the same manner as your system. What kind of
time period do you need to detect invalid DAs in?
You are correct that the issue here is not just a FindScopes one, it's the
fact that DAs don't expire in slpd. I ran into the same issue when moving
slpd unicast to UDP, which is why I added the timeout on the service
registration (following the protocol, of course :). If FindScopes were a
protocol-level command, I'd suggest a similar solution, but FindScopes just
queries the internal database as given to libslp by the connected slpd.
As an alternate to either option, the app could register a fake registration
on each scope it knows about through a previous SLPFindScopes, which should
help keep the knownDAs in sync. And openslp is not changed. If multiple
scopes aren't widely used, or used in the way you use it, this may be the
preferred option. Or it could act as a quick proof of concept.
I'm a little worried about removing the answer suppression in option A. You
are never guaranteed to receive a response from a DA in a particular
FindSrvs, and if there are a lot of DAs on the system the likelihood of
seeing that DA could decrease because you are processing all the DA adverts
each request. And I'm assuming you have some sort of list of potential
drops and not just drop if a DA doesn't respond to one request.
Option B has potential. Slpd could periodically do a unicast request and
time out in the same way that registration requests currently time out. If
this period wasn't too small there wouldn't be that much of an impact on the
system (and if disabled by default would be even less :). I think of the
two options I prefer this one.
Just my two cents.
--Nick
On 9/19/07, Morrell Richard < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote:
I have a problem with uncontrolled loss of DAs ie. where DAs can drop off
the network without sending out a corresponding DA advert, such as power
loss, or network device failure.
All the DAs in our system have unique scopes, and we perform unicast
searches of each scope (I have a patch to the 1.2.1 library that does
parallel unicast to multiple DAs, which I haven't yet had time to port to
the latest trunk for submission).
We get the list of scopes using the SLPFindScopes call, which queries the
local daemon. The problem is that when a DA goes down in an uncontrolled
fashion, its scope never seems to get removed from the list of scopes, so we
get timeouts for all subsequent searches until the DA comes back up again,
which is unacceptable in our application (we can cope with a short period
where this occurs, provided the situation is not permanent).
We have tried setting the active DA discovery parameters to their most
aggressive, in the hope that this would flag up the lost DAs, but this makes
no difference.
I have looked at the code, both version 1.2.1 which we are using, and the
latest trunk, and I believe the problem is in both, and arises because the
active DA discovery only adds new DAs to the DA cache, and does not remove
them. DAs ARE removed from the cache if a unicast request to a DA fails,
but these seem to be related only to service registration and deregistration
and, since each DA has a unique scope, there is no requirement to perform
these operations between DAs.
The two approaches I was considering were
a) Change the active discovery mechanism to query for all DAs (use an empty
previous responders list), and construct a list of those known DAs that
don't reply, removing them from the cache after a time. This behaviour
could be enabled/disabled using a new property.
b) Perform a regular unicast (DA request?) to each of the known DAs eg. on a
round robin basis so that all DAs are polled within a time period controlled
by a new property (could be set to zero to disable this behaviour)
Obviously, I would like to feed any changes back into the project, so I am
looking for feedback as to which approach would be preferable, or if there
is another approach that would be better, or if someone else was working on
the problem already.
Thanks.
Richard Morrell
Software Architecture & Technologies
THALES UNDERWATER SYSTEMS LTD
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or covered by legal professional privilege. If you have received this email
in error, please notify the sender upon receipt, and immediately delete it
from your system.
Anything contained in this email that is not connected with the businesses
of this company is neither endorsed by nor is the liability of this company.
Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that any attachment to
this email has been swept for viruses, we cannot accept liability for any
damage sustained as a result of software viruses, and would advise that you
carry out your own virus checks before opening any attachment.
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