What are other containers moving to? I couldn't find a single OpenSocial container using the HTML5 doctype that you mentioned. Which is a big concern for me.
Secondly, how on earth are we ever going to change doctype in the future when all these gadgets are inlined? Consider the case where we have multiple inline gadgets on the same page, of which some work with the new doctype and some fail. We could move failing gadgets in to an iframe with a different doctype. Also, the gadget can have multiple views, one compatible with HTML 4.01 strict and the other with HTML5 to more easily allow migration. In practice, I expect that migrating doctypes will be so hard, that we'll probably be stuck for a long time with whatever we choose now. On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 7:54 AM, Kevin Marks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Have you considered adopting the HTML5 doctype? > > <!DOCTYPE html> > > That is the future standard, and has the same behaviour in all > browsers but Netscape 6 as the strict HTML DTD; according to the > wikipedia table. > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 7:44 AM, Bruno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The DOCTYPE the patch uses is Strict - but not XHTML: > > > > > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/ > > TR/html4/strict.dtd"> > > > > - How much need is there for XHTML vs. HTML? > > - How willing are the containers to switch from Transitional to Strict? > > > > I've started a conversation with Orkut as they also need to migrate from > > Transitional. I thought that given the poor support of XHTML in IE, that > > XHTML didn't make as much sense. We still need a common standard across > all > > containers that is suitable for inlining. This is the best compromise I > came > > up with but this should have input from as many people as possible. > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 6:42 AM, Paul Lindner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Hi Bruno, > > > > > > I just spoke to a number of people that want to use strict xhtml for > > > their gadget content instead of the transitional xhtml we use at hi5. > > > > > > Do you think we can find a way to accomodate these folks? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sun, Feb 10, 2008 at 05:27:44AM -0500, Bruno Bowden wrote: > > > > > > > > This is a posting I made on the shindig-dev list - this post is to > > > > bring the issue to a wider audience. Gadget run in quirks mode (with > > > > no DOCTYPE) due to historical reasons. This is to raise awareness > that > > > > we need to migrate to standards mode, what's driving that decision > and > > > > how we could go about it. > > > > > > > > Currently the gadget specification defines gadgets as running in > > > > quirks mode: > > > > http://code.google.com/apis/gadgets/docs/spec.html > > > > > > > > > > > > CAJA INLINING > > > > > > > > Inlining cajoled gadgets is going to force us to switch to standards > > > > mode. As the inlined gadget will have to the same DOCTYPE as the > > > > container page. All the major OpenSocial partners use standards mode > > > > with the exception for Orkut. Complete list of container DOCTYPEs is > > > > at the end. > > > > > > > > If an author has to modify their gadget for caja, it makes sense to > > > > convert to standards mode too. This avoids hitting developers with > > > > repeated requests for changes or suffering the long term problems of > > > > adopting quirks mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY > > > > > > > > This was the problem that Kevin raised. A gadget should be able to > > > > elect to be rendered in standards mode. If a gadget doesn't request > > > > standards mode, then like a page without a DOCTYPE, it's shown in > > > > quirks mode - just the same as how gadgets are rendered at the > moment. > > > > Mix and match of modes is possible since it's inside an iframe: > > > > http://brunobowden.dreamhosters.com/gadgets/examples/strict.html > > > > > > > > Inlined Caja would use the DOCTYPE of the container. If a container > > > > wants to do inlining, then I believe it MUST use standards mode. > > > > > > > > > > > > SYNTAX > > > > > > > > We should not let gadgets specify the full doctype due - that would > be > > > > ok for iframes but it's impossible with inlining. Instead use a > > > > generic boolean: > > > > > > > > <Content standardsMode="true"> > > > > ... > > > > </Content> > > > > > > > > If standardsMode is specified, then the DOCTYPE as added. If the > > > > attribute is missing, then the container can do what it likes. This > > > > allows it to be opt-in at first but still gives the container > > > > flexibility to migrate later. If a gadget developer opts out by > using > > > > standardsMode="false", then it's always rendered in an iframe with > no > > > > DOCTYPE. We're discussing a similar syntax for Caja. > > > > > > > > > > > > QUESTIONS > > > > > > > > How constrained should containers on selecting a DOCTYPE? > > > > Obviously it should be standards mode but since gadget developers > are > > > > going to have a hard time coding to different DOCTYPEs, it would be > > > > easier for the container to standardize. I'm not familiar enough > with > > > > the differences between DOCTYPEs to evaluate this. > > > > > > > > For standards mode rewriting, should we be stricter again and > specify > > > > XHTML too? > > > > I need to check whether the output from Caja will be XHTML > compliant, > > > > it may be a requirement for the input too. > > > > > > > > > > > > CONTAINER DOCTYPES > > > > > > > > Wikipedia documents the browser support for all DOCTYPEs > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quirks_mode. I'm glossing over the > > > > "almost standards" mode for IE. The "html" has been lowercased in > all > > > > DOCTYPEs to make it easier to read. Complete list of DOCTYPEs by > > > > container: > > > > > > > > > > > > HTML: > > > > Plaxo Profile - Standards > > > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"> > > > > Friendster Profile: Standards > > > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN" > "http:// > > > > www.w3.org/TR/1998/REC-html40-19980424/loose.dtd"> > > > > LinkedIn Profile: Standards > > > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN" > "http:// > > > > www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd"> > > > > Orkut Profile: Quirks > > > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"> > > > > Blogger blog: Standards > > > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" " > http://www.w3.org/ > > > > TR/html4/strict.dtd"> > > > > iGoogle: Standards > > > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" " > http://www.w3.org/ > > > > TR/html4/strict.dtd"> > > > > > > > > XHTML: > > > > Facebook Profile & Canvas chrome: Standards > > > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN" "http:// > > > > www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd"> > > > > Hi5 Sandbox Profile: Standards > > > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" > "http:// > > > > www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> > > > > MySpace Profile: Standards > > > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" > "http:// > > > > www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> > > > > Salesforce.com: Standards > > > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" > "http:// > > > > www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd"> > > > > Ning OpenSocialDemo: Standards > > > > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.1//EN" " > http://www.w3.org/ > > > > TR/xhtml11/DTD/xhtml11.dtd"> > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Paul Lindner > > > hi5 Architect > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Implementing OpenSocial Containers" group. 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