Darren J Moffat writes:
> James Carlson wrote:
> > Darren J Moffat writes:
> >> We can argue this indefinitely but regardless of what some PSARC members
> >> think admins, developers on Solaris and other platforms act differently.
> >
> > Regardless of how they act, we don't apply any engineering towards
> > making their actions supportable.
>
> and there in lies the problem, we are not meeting customer needs here.
> Customers and partners really just don't care about that, we know they
> build stuff on top of syslog. They expect to build stuff ontop of
> syslog on all platforms not just Solaris. IMO we need to take the
> fingers out of our ears and stop just saying "la la la la la la"
> everything this comes up and ignoring what the customers use and we know
> they use.
... and then what, exactly? Abandon all engineering sense and say,
"sure, you can scrape strings out of files that were clearly intended
for humans and depend on them?"
I thought we were supposed to be setting system architecture here.
That sure doesn't sound like any kind of supportable architecture.
In any event, if you think that's the right thing to do because it
appeals to our customer's needs, then I think we need to have a new
policy written. The policy should inform future projects (and C-team
members and the PAC) that henceforth _all_ changes to debug messages
will be considered architectural matters, and that project teams are
required to have these reviewed -- and likely forced to higher
stability levels, in order to meet these "customer needs."
I don't think that's the right way to go, but that's clearly a
different case.
> What I'm saying for *this* case is that a reduction in the information
> presented is a problem and for me it means that this case doesn't meet
> its goals.
Given that they're merely debug messages, I don't really see the
problem you see.
I agree that we ought to have historical event information ("errpt"
anyone?), and even that dladm would be a good way to present it. I'm
not sure I agree that boiling away this particular ocean should be
necessary to clean up what is (at best) a haphazard collection of
semi-usable and mostly-harmful syslog messages.
--
James Carlson, Solaris Networking <james.d.carlson at sun.com>
Sun Microsystems / 1 Network Drive 71.232W Vox +1 781 442 2084
MS UBUR02-212 / Burlington MA 01803-2757 42.496N Fax +1 781 442 1677
