Hi, I strongly agree with the idea that we should update and enhance our Solaris userland tools. I think it's rather cheap and short-sighted that the GNU toolset is seen as the future. Obviously, there are plenty of features in Solaris that the GNU userland does not support. And in my book, that pretty much means we have to focus on our own userland tools. I'd rather have users and customers come to OpenSolaris/Solaris and be surprised and pleased with the robustness of our userland tools in addition to the OS itself. I don't care for jumping on the Penguin bus. If I wanted to run Linux, I'd go back to it.
And realistically, Linux users are not going to jump over onto Solaris, OpenSolaris, *BSD, Plan9, etc. Get over it, they already chose their OS and religion. Can we please stop trying to please an audience and customer base that will never materialize?? Look at the BSDs, they differentiate themselves and hold onto their user base without jumping on the Penguin bus. Why can't we be that strong and dedicated to making OpenSolaris the best UNIX? I care more about compliance to POSIX and the Open Group than I do with GNU/Linux. Regardless of who got onto the OGB this year, I'm starting to think that there should be a conference of some kind were people in the OpenSolaris community can come together and have a real architecture discussion. Perhaps it's time for the OpenSolaris System Standard to be defined and voted on? Octave *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* Octave J. Orgeron Solaris Virtualization Architect and Consultant Web: http://unixconsole.blogspot.com E-Mail: unixconsole at yahoo.com *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-* ----- Original Message ---- From: Milan Jurik <milan.ju...@sun.com> To: Nicolas Williams <Nicolas.Williams at sun.com> Cc: shell-discuss at opensolaris.org; Garrett D'Amore <gdamore at sun.com>; PSARC-ext at sun.com; Darren Reed <Darren.Reed at sun.com> Sent: Tue, March 23, 2010 1:43:28 AM Subject: Re: More ksh93 builtins Hi Nico, Nicolas Williams p??e v po 22. 03. 2010 v 12:08 -0500: > On Mon, Mar 22, 2010 at 09:46:27AM -0700, Darren Reed wrote: > > On 22/03/10 07:21 AM, Alan Coopersmith wrote: > > >Milan Jurik wrote: > > >>Alan Coopersmith p??e v p? 19. 03. 2010 v 16:39 -0700: > > >>>Garrett D'Amore wrote: > > >>>>I'm also of the opinion that it is a mistake to sacrifice familiarity > > >>>>for our paying Solaris 10 customers in favor of familiarity for people > > >>>>coming from Linux. > > >>>But clearly all our paying Solaris 10 customers already have dotfiles to > > >>>set $PATH, given how useless the default Solaris 10 $PATH is. > > >>I would be very carefull with claiming "all our paying Solaris 10 > > >>customers"... > > >Okay, make it "Any Solaris 10 customer (paying or not) who actually wants > > >to use the system" - given the lack of some basic commands in the default > > >path, such as /usr/sbin/ping or /usr/ccs/bin/make, the Solaris 10 default > > >PATH shows we've long required customers to change the default PATH to > > >actually make the system usable to either sysadmins or developers. > > > > And...? > > > > I doubt there exists a system where system administrators > > and/or developers don't customise their path. Go back and > > read Octave Orgeron's email. > > Moreover, the new default path is backed into the user's dot files at > account creation time. > > If you deploy Solaris Next in an environment where user accounts already > exist then those will be completely unaffected. > > I don't understand the sturm un drang over the /usr/gnu/bin-first-in- > default-PATH thing. It's a NON-ISSUE (except for GNU tools like ls and > chmod where lack of support for Solaris-specific features creates > problems. > It is issue for some of us and our point of view. ACLs impacts ls, chmod (cp, tar?). Linker incompatibility impacts those who invokes linker directly. I do not care about "sleep" command differences, where I care it is sacrifice Solaris specific features (which we present as our significant difference against competitors) for some other minor features. We see and hear "it is temporary". Roadmap? Solaris ls was improved by community member to level matching GNU ls. Still GNU ls is in system. Why? What are rules to remove GNU tool from prefered PATH if it is in conflict with Solaris features? Aren't you see confusing for newcommers simple scenario which is happening on OpenSolaris today? OK, cool, I have ZFS and I heard ACLs are supported there. How should I work with them. I am Linux guru, so let's try setattr. No, it is not here. Hmmmmm. docs.sun.com. Great it say ls/chmod is supporting it. OMG, not mine. OMG, what is wrong? Crappy Solaris, what a mess. Yes, we have "grep -R" and "tar xzf" for these users now. But we are presenting them very inconsistent situation now. Yes, old Solaris users will survive it most probably (unhappy that we are leaving them with old tools saying GNU is future even if incompatible and with lack of features), it will cost them only some time and money. Best regards, Milan _______________________________________________ opensolaris-arc mailing list opensolaris-arc at opensolaris.org
