Sweetheart, besides not being your "dude" I'm not interested in your advise nor
in your past. Matter of fact you distribute your "Toxic Viewer" in the
alternate viewer list. You also distribute the vivox voice components illegally
there. http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Alternate_viewers
As for the rest, it does not matter what I think about Modularsystems. Emerald
is not even an issue here. Read the facts I posted. You don't need to like
them, nevertheless these are facts, not fiction.
The questions I raised remain and I hope someone from LL can answer them.
----- Original Message -----
From: Brandon Husbands
To: Boy Lane
Cc: Discrete Dreamscape ; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 5:17 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV
Sighs.
Last post.... I am going to word this very simple like.
GPL. the actual locations are different. There no page nor www site for the
viewer itself. Nor is it a active thing. You have issues with this... Please
contact: <license-violat...@gnu.org> by all means.
Since your insisting on the credentials. I can hand you my resume if you
like. You said do not have any idea who I am nor what I do. Lets see i have
contributed to many FOSS projects and have plenty of my own. Recently the LSL
editor which was closed source was given to me by the copyright holder. I have
open sourced it. There are plenty of other projects which are open source which
I contribute. I also created DCS and have a active user base of over 150k in SL
and since your so fond of if a company is real i assure you my company is. If
you like I can put you in contact with my lawyers to discuss your accusations
and slander which you have recently brought up about myself and my works and
such. So please don't go barking at me about this or that as i do not have
time for your petty games and epeen stroking.
Plainly what it boils down to is you have a beef with emerald. Sorry I can
not help you with this. But this is no place for your attacks on it.
To put it in terms which i believe you might understand. drop it dude. No one
wants to hear your crying on this list. I only chimed in cause to be honest
your whines annoyed me.
You are barking up the wrong tree here sir. So please cease and desist so we
can get back to productive discussions.
I will not reply anymore as I have contributed to this chaos way to much now.
You can feel free to contact me in world or via email for further discussion or
if you choose to continue with false accusations we can handle this in a lawful
way but by any means his list is not the place so I will ask you one more
time.. Please stop.
To the rest of you I am personally sorry that you have to go through this.
But I can not allow these type of accusations to go unanswered. I really am
sorry that you have to go through this garbage.
Dim.
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:49 AM, Boy Lane <boy.l...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Your credentials are very much up for discussion if you engage in here.
Firstly, you do not link to your sources where you post your binary, that is in
the alternate viewer directory. A posting here in the mailing list is not
sufficient. As such you are violating GPL. You are also violating
redistribution licenses by distributing the vivox voice components in the same
place. But that's not what this whole thing is about.
As for the points you brought up, I'm not the one supposed to answer
anything in regards of legal status, registration, permanent bans, newly
created accounts etc. of Modularsystems and their key developers. I wrote what
is publically available information. As this is limited I asked the question
here about this because I do not know the details and I'd like to get an answer
how this is possible and why permanently banned accounts can circumvent that
ban by just creating new avatars.
The ToS violations and bans are verifyable by the very own statement of
JCool/Fractured, also the acknowledgment of the malicious Onyx viewer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRbV9SIbdCA
Again, these are facts people should be aware of. Henri raised a legitimate
qestion about creation of a blacklist of known malicious viewers, instead of
relying on FUD spread by LL about the validity of listings in the viewer
directory. Everyone can list a viewer here, self certify, and residents believe
this viewer is legitimate. Which is nothing but wrong. LL has neither the
resources nor capacity to verify every single viewer entry.
In addition they also stated clearly that the Viewer Directory is meant as
a marketing tool for those who need the publicity it may create. What I think
it only creates is a false sense of security, and it will be only a question of
time until a malicious project will be listed, and be it for the LULZ of some
script kiddie.
I have nothing against you personally, but I have serious concerns that
made me stopping developing viewers. Even though they never had any malicious
features at all.
Boy
----- Original Message -----
From: Brandon Husbands
To: Boy Lane
Cc: Discrete Dreamscape ; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 4:29 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV
My credentials are not up for discussion. Most in Second Life are well
aware of who I am and what I stand for. Additionally most creditable and active
community members know my contributions and projects. Though i could be
mistaken in the extent to which this information travels. If I am wrong in my
assumption then perhaps we can use a different forum or venue to discuss these
things.
Now on to your questions let us take a look at what you are saying and
implying.
1 The company.
Please show me what Government databases you looked in that also covers
DBAs and assumed operating names, You place accusations here without proper
proof nor justification.
2. The bans you mention.
As far as I know, Linden Labs does not discuss with anyone outside of its
company and the people which they take action upon the conditions relevant
information regarding disciplinary actions and bans. So unless you are a Linden
or have been one in the past i Highly doubt that the information is truly
factual.
3. Are you accusing Linden Labs of pandering to the almighty dollar
instead of standing up for the company integrity on their own list? Sir, that
is a huge accusation. I ask again where is your factual information that has
brought you to this conclusion? I would honestly say that this is indeed not a
true thing you state and is borderline slander against the very company which
you supposedly are a third party contribute for.
4. The toxic viewer source is posted. If you care to look at it here is
the link.
https://dcs.sourcerepo.com/dcs/tox_view/ feel free to look at it and take
what ever changes you see that you like. Be warry as its just a general repo
for my dir i work in. The Voice component is not included in the installer
btw. Furthermore the Toxic Viewer is no longer in active development as it was
something that was asked of me to do by my wife. And trust me you do not wanna
go there. Youll just have to trust me on that. So in all honesty its a null
point.
Now on to my own conclusions regarding your communications.
I really do not have much more to say to you in this subject. But I will
offer some advice in regards to point 3. As I tell my kids. "You do not ***
where you eat and you do not bite the hand which feeds you. Now its not my
place to parent you nor is it my place to tell you what to do.. I only offer
this advice as a human being that is concerned with the direction this
discussion is going.
So in a nutshell I do not believe and will safely assume that no one on
this list thinks that this is a proper forum for this type of
accusation/discussion. May i give you one more piece of advise. Have you tried
the proper channels for this type of inquisition? If I am not mistaken the url
is support.secondlife.com. Once your on that page you can select new
ticket/issue. That would probably be the best avanue to question these things.
On a side note if you need assistance filing a ticket I would be more than
happy to assist.
Dim.
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 3:12 AM, Boy Lane <boy.l...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Sorry, seems I have to correct myself. Mr. Brandon Husbands seems to be
Dimentox Travanti. Creator of the "Toxic Viewer". A project that violates GPL
by not providing sources as well as distributing non-redistributable components
such as the Vivox voice packages.
This adds very well to your credibility Mr. Brandon Husbands :).
----- Original Message -----
From: Boy Lane
To: Brandon Husbands ; Discrete Dreamscape
Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 3:57 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV
I don't know who you are Mr. Brandon Husbands, you are certainly not
a viewer developer but a fly-by-night who want's to add some oil to the drama
fire. It does not really matter.
I stated facts here, not flames.
Modularsytems is a "company" with a legal status we dont't know,
created and owned by a person with permanently banned accounts due to ToS
violations.
Modularsystems is registered as this entity in the viewer directory.
Modularsystems develops and uses malicious viewers, namely "Onyx",
with several other malicious projects done by key developers such as Fractured,
Phox, Skills or Cryo. All who had their accounts permanently banned for ToS
violations.
I asked a legitimate question to LL, to repeat it once again: How can
for repeated ToS violations permanently banned people just circumvent that ban
by creating new accounts as many of the Emerald developers did? Is it money
spent for SL that counts rather than ToS?
As you haven't read my posting, rather add irrelevant accusations in
your own posting, Mr. Brandon Husband, that are supposedly to confuse the
reader and discredit legitimate questions, lI can only conclude you are the
troll here.
Boy
----- Original Message -----
From: Brandon Husbands
To: Discrete Dreamscape
Cc: Boy Lane ; opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2010 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the TPV
I do not add much to the list.. But I will say... Mr lane, what
ever your problem is with Emerald... You should probably let it go. This
blatant flaming and trolling does not help the open source community. Your
actions and flames are actually a hindrance to the community as a whole. You
see i say community as we typically work together to make things better etc.
It Seems you mostly wish to sabotage and wreck havoc. It is counter
productive and plain rude.
SO i must request... Either take this offline directloy with the
people you have a problem with or quit posting this crap as I do not want to
have to read it. So as they say either *** or get off the pot.... So either
become a active positive contributing member of this community or go away. I am
quite fed up with the Trolls and will no longer personally tolerate it. So
please go stroke your ego else where and lets get back to discussing code and
things that actually matter to us besides your grievance against emerald.
Dim.
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 1:00 AM, Discrete Dreamscape
<discrete.dreamsc...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'd like to remark that the information you found is just the
data of the ModularSystems website, and all of the other viewer directory
listings look about the same as Emerald's. The actual real-life name(s) of
people involved aren't required to be publicly viewable, but Linden Lab does
have them. Also, consider the possibility that .sl was chosen as a domain
because it could be an abbreviation for SecondLife. Cute, eh?
I seriously doubt anyone with malicious intent is going to bother
trying to register their viewer in the directory.
On Thu, Apr 29, 2010 at 8:38 PM, Boy Lane <boy.l...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
We certainly should follow the bright example of Emerald /
Modularsystems,
where you Discrete are a member of. A pseudo company set up and
owned
by known banned griefer JCool aka who revived his banned
account(s) under
the names of Fractured Crystal/Fractured Modularsystems.
Back to their registration. JCool set up Modularsystems. A
mailbox company
with the following contact details:
http://modularsystems.sl/
P.O. Box 5702
West Columbia, South Carolina 29171-5702
United States
administra...@modularsystems.sl
That is an untraceable anonymized entity without any name
attached to it and
unknown legal status, registered with a domain name in Sierra
Leone, a
country
that does not even have a WHOIS.
This information was used to register and self-certify Emerald
in the Viewer
Directory.
As I as a legally uniformed hobby programmer without commercial
interest can
evaluate this situation and validity of the Emerald listing, it
is meant to
circumvent
any means of the viewer directory to hold a developer
accountable for their
viewers. It is also meant to avoid any possible litigation from
LL in case
indeed
some malicious code may be found in their viewer(s). Besides
Emerald,
Modularsystems
also develops and uses a malicious viewer named "Onyx" that is
in clear
violation of
ToS/TPV.
So no, Discrete, all these things completely contradict your
argument. As
shown a
listing in Lindens viewer directory doesn't add a single piece
of safety or
security. To
look for a legitimate viewer the Alternate Viewer list in the
community
edited SL Wiki
is a better place to, for the simple reason malicious clients
may not easily
slip in as
this is possible with self-certification. A blacklist is a good
thing and
could at least
complement Viewer Directory and Alternate Viewers list. But of
course it
would
include most of the malicious viewer from the key developers
behind
Modularsystems
which obviously you try to avoid.
Additional question to Linden Lab: How can for repeated ToS
violations
permanently
banned people just circumvent that ban by creating new accounts
as many of
the
Emerald developers did? Is it money spent for SL that counts
rather than
ToS?
Boy
----- Original Message ----- > Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2010 16:39:16
-0400
> From: Discrete Dreamscape <discrete.dreamsc...@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [opensource-dev] Viewer blacklist to replace the
TPV
> directory ?
> To: Tigro Spottystripes <tigrospottystri...@gmail.com>
> Cc: opensource-dev@lists.secondlife.com
> Message-ID:
>
<g2nc38195a91004291339p41f404edgfe05a593c813c...@mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> This discussion seems to have been created with misleading
intentions.
>
> Because some TPV creators don't want to reveal any personal
information
> about themselves, they can't be posted on the TPV directory,
and because
> of
> this, it's understandable they might view the directory as
unfair. But,
> this
> doesn't strike me as a valid reason to criticize the list.
>
> It's certainly valid to say that the viewers on the list are
not
> absolutely
> trustworthy unless a full code audit is done, but even then,
do you really
> know that what's in the code is the same as what's in the
binary? Isn't
> there a limit to what LL can do, given a lack of resources to
perform such
> audits, especially when what you download requires trust that
it's the
> same
> as what they've audited?
>
> But really, trust is supposed to be provided by the fact that
the viewer
> has
> indeed registered using real-life contact information,
because who would
> give such a thing knowing they could be held liable if they
indeed decided
> to include malicious code? In general, there is no way to
certify purity
> here, you can only provide a level of trust as a guideline.
You can't rely
> on babysitting the users, because LL isn't going to compile
every third
> party's code and release the binaries themselves.
>
> In this regard, you may begin to argue that indeed, a
blacklist would
> better
> serve users. I argue that this is exactly the opposite. You
may be able to
> pick out which viewers are explicitly untrusted, but you make
no
> statements
> about the trustworthiness of any others. In this situation, a
user is left
> to choose between either a viewer which is in the grey about
its status,
> or
> an official Linden viewer. This point is key, as far less
warranty is
> provided for users that they won't be banned for using a
third party
> viewer.
> I suspect that in this case, many would simply give up and
use the
> official
> client rather than risk their business, etc.
>
> If you want to provide a system where users can trust the
clients they
> use,
> it seems like our current one is decent enough. In any case,
a blacklist
> doesn't appear to be any safer.
>
> Discrete
>
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