> What about 3DES with appropriate IV, downgrade and replay
> countermeasures, what exactly is wrong with those ciphers that is beyond
> salvage?(By salvage I mean significantly better than plain text when talking 
> to
> clients that don't support anything more modern, such as certain Microsoft
> systems).

I don't know.  I am not a cryptographer, and I try not to come across as if I 
were.

"There are no safe SSL3 ciphers" is something several cryptographers and other 
members of the security community, have said loudly and often.

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