On 10/02/17 16:39, Alexandra Settle wrote: > Sorry, I’m top posting to this reply because Outlook is a terrible inline > poster. > > Hey Designaters! > > Have you tried pinging the docs team? (ie: me – Hello! I’m the docs PTL)
Hi - We have in the past, and did not get very far. I know things are now changing, so expect me to ping you over the next few weeks :) > Over the last few cycles our team has been able to step in and help with > formatting, writing, and organizing documentation. Helping small projects > (like OpenStack-Ansible) to fix several of the issues you noted below > (install, operations, dev docs). During the Newton cycle I was able to help > the OSA team organize their dev docs: > http://docs.openstack.org/developer/openstack-ansible/developer-docs/index.html, > and as a team we created the Deploy Guide > http://docs.openstack.org/project-deploy-guide/openstack-ansible/newton/. And > for Ocata, we have been working heavily on their operations content: > http://docs.openstack.org/developer/openstack-ansible/draft-operations-guide/index.html > > > Technical writers do not often have the expertise to provide SME knowledge > (that’s your job), but we are experts when it concerns ensuring documentation > is in the right place to help new users. And we are the guardians of the > Operations Guide. > > I know your conversation is much larger than just fixing documentation, but > if we can help, please shout out :) Thanks for reaching out, I will definitely shout if need it. - Graham > On 2/10/17, 3:53 PM, "Hayes, Graham" <graham.ha...@hpe.com> wrote: > > On 10/02/17 02:40, Jay Pipes wrote: > > On 02/09/2017 02:19 PM, Hayes, Graham wrote: > > <snip> > > > >> Where too now then? > >> =================== > >> > >> Well, this is where I call out to people who actually use the project - > >> don't > >> jump ship and use something else because of the picture I have painted. > >> We are > >> a dedicated team, how cares about the project. We just need some help. > >> > >> I know there are large telcos who use Designate. I am sure there is > tooling, > >> or docs build up in these companies that could be very useful to the > >> project. > >> > >> Nearly every commercial OpenStack distro has Designate. Some have had > it > >> since > >> the beginning. Again, developers, docs, tooling, testers, anything and > >> everything is welcome. We don't need a massive amount of resources - we > >> are a > >> small ish, stable, project. > >> > >> We need developers with upstream time allocated, and the budget to go > to > >> events > >> like the PTG - for cross project work, and internal designate road map, > >> these > >> events form the core of how we work. > >> > >> We also need help from cross project teams - the work done by them is > >> brilliant > >> but it can be hard for smaller projects to consume. We have had a lot > of > >> progress since the `Leveller Playing Field`_ debate, but a lot of work > is > >> still optimised for the larger teams who get direct support, or well > >> resourced > >> teams who can dedicate people to the implementation of plugins / code. > >> > >> As someone I was talking to recently said - AWS is not winning public > cloud > >> because of commodity compute (that does help - a lot), but because of > the > >> added services that make using the cloud, well, cloud like. OpenStack > >> needs to > >> decide that either it is just compute, or if it wants the eco-system. > [5]_ > >> Designate is far from alone in this. > > > > <snip> > > > > Graham, thank you for the heartfelt post. I may not agree with all your > > points, but I know you're coming from the right place and truly want to > > see Designate (and OpenStack in general) succeed. > > Thanks for reading - it ended up longer than expected. > > > Your point about smaller projects finding it more difficult to > "consume" > > help from cross-project teams is an interesting one. When the big tent > > was being discussed, I remember the TC specifically discussing a change > > for cross-project team focus: moving from a "we do this work for you" > > role to a "we help you do this work for yourself" role. You're correct > > that the increase in OpenStack projects meant that the cross-project > > teams simply would not be able to continue to be a service to other > > teams. This was definitely predicted during the big tent discussions. > > I remember the same things being discussed. However, that is not what > happened, at least not immediately, and it can be very hard to > motivate yourself to work on things when everytime you ask for help > you get nothing, other than a link to the docs page you have read > a 100 times. > > > If I had one piece of advice to give Designate, it would be to > > prioritize getting documentation (both installation as well as dev-ref > > and operational docs) in good shape. I know writing docs sucks, but > docs > > are a springboard for users and contributors alike and can have a > > multiplying effect that's difficult to overstate. Getting those install > > and developer docs started would enable the cross-project docs team to > > guide Designate contributors in enhancing and cleaning up the docs and > > putting some polish on 'em. Your idea above that maybe some users > > already wrote some docs is a good one. Maybe reach out personally to > > those telcos and see if they can dig something up that can be the basis > > for upstream docs. > > Yeah, writing docs is hard to do right, and honestly, we have been > trying to just keep up with bugs recently. > > The problem for us is, where do things like operational docs go? > There is an ops guide, but it is very hard to see where we could > put content. I am also a firm believer that > docs.openstack.org/developer/<project> is *not* the place for > end user / ops / etc documentation - its why our docs are so > messy right now. > > I have pinged a few people for docs, and am waiting for responses. > > > Best, > > -jay > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > > Unsubscribe: > openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > > > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) > Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev > __________________________________________________________________________ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) Unsubscribe: openstack-dev-requ...@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
