Hi,

On 24.05.17 18:43, Zane Bitter wrote:
On 19/05/17 11:00, Lance Haig wrote:
Hi,

As we know the heat-templates repository has become out of date in some
respects and also has been difficult to be maintained from a community
perspective.

For me the repository is quiet confusing with different styles that are
used to show certain aspects and other styles for older template examples.

This I think leads to confusion and perhaps many people who give up on
heat as a resource as things are not that clear.

From discussions in other threads and on the IRC channel I have seen
that there is a need to change things a bit.


This is why I would like to start the discussion that we rethink the
template example repository.

I would like to open the discussion with mys suggestions.

  * We need to differentiate templates that work on earlier versions of
    heat that what is the current supported versions.

I typically use the heat_template_version for this. Technically this is entirely independent of what resource types are available in Heat. Nevertheless, if I submit e.g. a template that uses new resources only available in Ocata, I'll set 'heat_template_version: ocata' even if the template doesn't contain any Ocata-only intrinsic functions. We could make that a convention.
That is one way to achieve this.

      o I have suggested that we create directories that relate to
        different versions so that you can create a stable version of
        examples for the heat version and they should always remain
        stable for that version and once it goes out of support can
        remain there.

I'm reluctant to move existing things around unless its absolutely necessary, because there are a lot of links out in the wild to templates that will break. And they're links directly to the Git repo, it's not like we publish them somewhere and could add redirects.

Although that gives me an idea: what if we published them somewhere? We could make templates actually discoverable by publishing a list of descriptions (instead of just the names like you get through browsing the Git repo). And we could even add some metadata to indicate what versions of Heat they run on.

It would be better to do something like this. One of the biggest learning curves that our users have had is understanding what is available in what version of heat and then finding examples of templates that match their version. I wanted to create the heat-lib library so that people could easily find working examples for their version of heat and also use the library intact as is so that they can get up-to speed really quickly.
This has enabled people to become productive much faster with heat.

      o This would mean people can find their version of heat and know
        these templates all work on their version

This would mean keeping multiple copies of each template and maintaining them all. I don't think this is the right way to do this - to maintain old stuff what you need is a stable branch. That's also how you're going to be able to test against old versions of OpenStack in the gate.
Well I am not sure that this would be needed. Unless there are many backports of new resources to older versions of the templates. e.g. Would the project backport the Neuton conditionals to the Liberty version of heat? I am assuming not.

That means that once a new version of heat is decided the template set becomes locked and you just create a copy with the new template version and test regression and once that is complete then you start adding the changes that are specific to the new version of heat.

I know that initially it would be quiet a bit of work to setup and to test the versions but once they are locked then you don't touch them again.

As I suggested in the other thread, I'd be OK with moving deprecated stuff to a 'deprecated' directory and then eventually deleting it. Stable branches would then correctly reflect the status of those templates at each previous release.
That makes sense. I would liek to clarify the above discussion first before we look at how to deprecate unsupported versions. I say that as many of our customers are running Liberty still :-)


  * We should consider adding a docs section that that includes training
    for new users.
      o I know that there are documents hosted in the developer area and
        these could be utilized but I would think having a documentation
        section in the repository would be a good way to keep the
        examples and the documents in the same place.
      o This docs directory could also host some training for new users
        and old ones on new features etc.. In a similar line to what is
        here in this repo https://github.com/heat-extras/heat-tutorial
  * We should include examples form the default hooks e.g. ansible salt
    etc... with SoftwareDeployments.
      o We found this quiet helpful for new users to understand what is
        possible.
  * We should make sure that the validation running against the
    templates runs without ignoring errors.
      o This was noted in IRC that some errors were ignored as the
        endpoints or catalog was not available. It would be good to have
        some form of headless catalog server that tests can be run
        against so that developers of templates can validate before
        submitting patches.

+1 to all of this.

These points are here to open the discussions around this topic

Please feel free to make your suggestions.

Thanks for kicking this off!

I am only doing my bit.

Regards

Lance



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