I use RDO in production. Its pretty far from RedHat OpenStack. though its been 
a while since I tried the TripleO part of RDO. Is it pretty well integrated 
now? Similar to RedHat OpenStack? or is it more Fedora like then CentOS like?

Thanks,
Kevin
________________________________
From: Dmitry Tantsur [dtant...@redhat.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2018 11:17 AM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] [all] TC Report 18-26




On Thu, Jul 5, 2018, 19:31 Fox, Kevin M 
<kevin....@pnnl.gov<mailto:kevin....@pnnl.gov>> wrote:
We're pretty far into a tangent...

/me shrugs. I've done it. It can work.

Some things your right. deploying k8s is more work then deploying ansible. But 
what I said depends on context. If your goal is to deploy k8s/manage k8s then 
having to learn how to use k8s is not a big ask. adding a different tool such 
as ansible is an extra cognitive dependency. Deploying k8s doesn't need a 
general solution to deploying generic base OS's. Just enough OS to deploy K8s 
and then deploy everything on top in containers. Deploying a seed k8s with 
minikube is pretty trivial. I'm not suggesting a solution here to provide 
generic provisioning to every use case in the datacenter. But enough to get a 
k8s based cluster up and self hosted enough where you could launch other 
provisioning/management tools in that same cluster, if you need that. It 
provides a solid base for the datacenter on which you can easily add the 
services you need for dealing with everything.

All of the microservices I mentioned can be wrapped up in a single helm chart 
and deployed with a single helm install command.

I don't have permission to release anything at the moment, so I can't prove 
anything right now. So, take my advice with a grain of salt. :)

Switching gears, you said why would users use lfs when they can use a distro, 
so why use openstack without a distro. I'd say, today unless you are paying a 
lot, there isn't really an equivalent distro that isn't almost as much effort 
as lfs when you consider day2 ops. To compare with Redhat again, we have a RHEL 
(redhat openstack), and Rawhide (devstack) but no equivalent of CentOS. Though 
I think TripleO has been making progress on this front...

It's RDO what you're looking for (equivalent of centos). TripleO is an 
installer project, not a distribution.


Anyway. This thread is I think 2 tangents away from the original topic now. If 
folks are interested in continuing this discussion, lets open a new thread.

Thanks,
Kevin

________________________________________
From: Dmitry Tantsur [dtant...@redhat.com<mailto:dtant...@redhat.com>]
Sent: Wednesday, July 04, 2018 4:24 AM
To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] [all] TC Report 18-26

Tried hard to avoid this thread, but this message is so much wrong..

On 07/03/2018 09:48 PM, Fox, Kevin M wrote:
> I don't dispute trivial, but a self hosting k8s on bare metal is not 
> incredibly hard. In fact, it is easier then you might think. k8s is a 
> platform for deploying/managing services. Guess what you need to provision 
> bare metal? Just a few microservices. A dhcp service. dhcpd in a daemonset 
> works well. some pxe infrastructure. pixiecore with a simple http backend 
> works pretty well in practice. a service to provide installation 
> instructions. nginx server handing out kickstart files for example. and a 
> place to fetch rpms from in case you don't have internet access or want to 
> ensure uniformity. nginx server with a mirror yum repo. Its even possible to 
> seed it on minikube and sluff it off to its own cluster.
>
> The main hard part about it is currently no one is shipping a reference 
> implementation of the above. That may change...
>
> It is certainly much much easier then deploying enough OpenStack to get a 
> self hosting ironic working.

Side note: no, it's not. What you describe is similarly hard to installing
standalone ironic from scratch and much harder than using bifrost for
everything. Especially when you try to do it in production. Especially with
unusual operating requirements ("no TFTP servers on my network").

Also, sorry, I cannot resist:
"Guess what you need to orchestrate containers? Just a few things. A container
runtime. Docker works well. some remove execution tooling. ansible works pretty
well in practice. It is certainly much much easier then deploying enough k8s to
get a self hosting containers orchestration working."

Such oversimplications won't bring us anywhere. Sometimes things are hard
because they ARE hard. Where are people complaining that installing a full
GNU/Linux distributions from upstream tarballs is hard? How many operators here
use LFS as their distro? If we are okay with using a distro for GNU/Linux, why
using a distro for OpenStack causes so much contention?

>
> Thanks,
> Kevin
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Jay Pipes [jaypi...@gmail.com<mailto:jaypi...@gmail.com>]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2018 10:06 AM
> To: 
> openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org>
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [tc] [all] TC Report 18-26
>
> On 07/02/2018 03:31 PM, Zane Bitter wrote:
>> On 28/06/18 15:09, Fox, Kevin M wrote:
>>>    * made the barrier to testing/development as low as 'curl
>>> http://......minikube; minikube start' (this spurs adoption and
>>> contribution)
>>
>> That's not so different from devstack though.
>>
>>>    * not having large silo's in deployment projects allowed better
>>> communication on common tooling.
>>>    * Operator focused architecture, not project based architecture.
>>> This simplifies the deployment situation greatly.
>>>    * try whenever possible to focus on just the commons and push vendor
>>> specific needs to plugins so vendors can deal with vendor issues
>>> directly and not corrupt the core.
>>
>> I agree with all of those, but to be fair to OpenStack, you're leaving
>> out arguably the most important one:
>>
>>       * Installation instructions start with "assume a working datacenter"
>>
>> They have that luxury; we do not. (To be clear, they are 100% right to
>> take full advantage of that luxury. Although if there are still folks
>> who go around saying that it's a trivial problem and OpenStackers must
>> all be idiots for making it look so difficult, they should really stop
>> embarrassing themselves.)
>
> This.
>
> There is nothing trivial about the creation of a working datacenter --
> never mind a *well-running* datacenter. Comparing Kubernetes to
> OpenStack -- particular OpenStack's lower levels -- is missing this
> fundamental point and ends up comparing apples to oranges.
>
> Best,
> -jay
>
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