I'm not following here - you complain about rally being monolithic,
then suggest that parts of it should be baked into tempest - a tool
that is already huge and difficult to get into. I'd rather see tools
that do one thing well and some overlap than one tool to rule them
all.

On 6 August 2014 14:44, Sean Dague <s...@dague.net> wrote:
> On 08/06/2014 09:11 AM, Russell Bryant wrote:
>> On 08/06/2014 06:30 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>>> Hi everyone,
>>>
>>> At the TC meeting yesterday we discussed Rally program request and
>>> incubation request. We quickly dismissed the incubation request, as
>>> Rally appears to be able to live happily on top of OpenStack and would
>>> benefit from having a release cycle decoupled from the OpenStack
>>> "integrated release".
>>>
>>> That leaves the question of the program. OpenStack programs are created
>>> by the Technical Committee, to bless existing efforts and teams that are
>>> considered *essential* to the production of the "OpenStack" integrated
>>> release and the completion of the OpenStack project mission. There are 3
>>> ways to look at Rally and official programs at this point:
>>>
>>> 1. Rally as an essential QA tool
>>> Performance testing (and especially performance regression testing) is
>>> an essential QA function, and a feature that Rally provides. If the QA
>>> team is happy to use Rally to fill that function, then Rally can
>>> obviously be adopted by the (already-existing) QA program. That said,
>>> that would put Rally under the authority of the QA PTL, and that raises
>>> a few questions due to the current architecture of Rally, which is more
>>> product-oriented. There needs to be further discussion between the QA
>>> core team and the Rally team to see how that could work and if that
>>> option would be acceptable for both sides.
>>>
>>> 2. Rally as an essential operator tool
>>> Regular benchmarking of OpenStack deployments is a best practice for
>>> cloud operators, and a feature that Rally provides. With a bit of a
>>> stretch, we could consider that benchmarking is essential to the
>>> completion of the OpenStack project mission. That program could one day
>>> evolve to include more such "operations best practices" tools. In
>>> addition to the slight stretch already mentioned, one concern here is
>>> that we still want to have performance testing in QA (which is clearly
>>> essential to the production of "OpenStack"). Letting Rally primarily be
>>> an operational tool might make that outcome more difficult.
>>>
>>> 3. Let Rally be a product on top of OpenStack
>>> The last option is to not have Rally in any program, and not consider it
>>> *essential* to the production of the "OpenStack" integrated release or
>>> the completion of the OpenStack project mission. Rally can happily exist
>>> as an operator tool on top of OpenStack. It is built as a monolithic
>>> product: that approach works very well for external complementary
>>> solutions... Also be more integrated in OpenStack or part of the
>>> OpenStack programs might come at a cost (slicing some functionality out
>>> of rally to make it more a framework and less a product) that might not
>>> be what its authors want.
>>>
>>> Let's explore each option to see which ones are viable, and the pros and
>>> cons of each.
>>
>> My feeling right now is that Rally is trying to accomplish too much at
>> the start (both #1 and #2).  I would rather see the project focus on
>> doing one of them as best as it can before increasing scope.
>>
>> It's my opinion that #1 is the most important thing that Rally can be
>> doing to help ensure the success of OpenStack, so I'd like to explore
>> the "Rally as a QA tool" in more detail to start with.
>
> I want to clarify some things. I don't think that rally in it's current
> form belongs in any OpenStack project. It's a giant monolythic tool,
> which is apparently a design point. That's the wrong design point for an
> OpenStack project.
>
> For instance:
>
> https://github.com/stackforge/rally/tree/master/rally/benchmark/scenarios 
> should
> all be tests in Tempest (and actually today mostly are via API tests).
> There is an existing stress framework in Tempest which does the
> repetitive looping that rally does on these already. This fact has been
> brought up before.
>
> https://github.com/stackforge/rally/tree/master/rally/verification/verifiers
> - should be baked back into Tempest (at least on the results side,
> though diving in there now it looks largely duplicative from existing
> subunit to html code).
>
> https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/db/api.py - is
> largely (not entirely) what we'd like from a long term trending piece
> that subunit2sql is working on. Again this was just all thrown into the
> Rally db instead of thinking about how to split it off. Also, notable
> here is there are some fundamental testr bugs (like worker
> misallocation) which mean the data is massively dirty today. It would be
> good for people to actually work on fixing those things.
>
> The parts that should stay outside of Tempest are the setup tool
> (separation of concerns is that Tempest is the load runner, not the
> setup environment) and any of the SLA portions.
>
> I think rally brings forward a good point about making Tempest easier to
> run. But I think that shouldn't be done outside Tempest. Making the test
> tool easier to use should be done in the tool itself. If that means
> adding a tempest cmd or such, so be it. Note this was a topic for
> discussion at last summit:
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Summit/Juno/Etherpads#QA
>
>> From the TC meeting, it seems that the QA group (via sdague, at least)
>> has provided some feedback to Rally over the last several months.  I
>> would really like to see an analysis and write-up from the QA group on
>> the current state of Rally and how it may (or may not) be able to serve
>> the performance QA needs.
>
> Something that we need to figure out is given where we are in the
> release cycle do we want to ask the QA team to go off and do Rally deep
> dive now to try to pull it apart into the parts that make sense for
> other programs to take in. There are always trade offs.
>
> Like the fact that right now the rally team is proposing gate jobs which
> have some overlap to the existing largeops jobs. Did they start a
> conversation about it? Nope. They just went off to do their thing
> instead. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/112251/
>
> So now we're going to run 2 jobs that do very similar things, with
> different teams adjusting the test loads. Which I think is basically
> madness.
>
>         -Sean
>
> --
> Sean Dague
> http://dague.net
>
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-- 
Duncan Thomas

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