On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 08:27:58AM -0500, Sean Dague wrote:
> On 01/13/2015 08:01 AM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
> > Kuvaja, Erno wrote:
> >> [...]
> >> 1) One does not need to express themselves in a way that is for public. ( 
> >> Misunderstandings can be corrected on the fly if needed. ) There is no 
> >> need to explain to anyone reading the logs what you actually meant during 
> >> the conversation month ago.
> >> 2) there is level of confidentiality within that defined audience. ( For 
> >> example someone not familiar with the processes thinks they have found 
> >> security vulnerability and comes to the IRC-channel to ask second opinion. 
> >> Those details are not public and that bug can still be raised and dealt 
> >> properly. Once the discussion is logged and the logs are publicly 
> >> available the details are publicly available as well. )
> >> 3) That defined audience does not usually limit content. I have no problem 
> >> to throw my e-mail address, phone number etc. into the channel, I would 
> >> not yell them out publicly.
> >> [...]
> > 
> > All 3 arguments point to issues you have with *public* channels, not
> > *logged* channels.
> > 
> > Our IRC channels are, in effect, already public. Anyone can join them,
> > anyone can log them. An embargoed vulnerability discussed on an IRC
> > channel (logged or not) should be considered leaked. I agree that
> > logging makes it easier for random people to access that already-public
> > information, but you can't consider an IRC channel private (and change
> > your communication style or content) because it's not logged by eavesdrop.
> > 
> > What you seem to be after is a private, invitation-only IRC channel.
> > That's an orthogonal issue to the concept of logging.
> Honestly, I do think it's probably worth having an OpenStack wide bit of
> guidance here, especially now that every project has felt the need to
> spin up their own channel instead of using #openstack-dev (which is
> currently mostly void of content).
> Not having these logs means we often are missing important parts of
> historical context when decisions are made, because a lot more design is
> happening in unarchived formats than archived ones.

Yep, there have been a number of occassions when conversations that are
relevant to my work have taken place on IRC channels for projects that
I don't normally participate in. It would have been useful to be able
to see the logs and in some cases the channels were not logged. I think
that the project should log all #openstack* IRC channels unconditionally
to maximise the spread of knowledge and improve/facilitate collaboration
& communication between teams. We are a supposedly open, collaborative
project after all.

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