On 30/04/15 12:07 +0300, Maish Saidel-Keesing wrote:
On 04/30/15 10:15, Thierry Carrez wrote:
Doug Hellmann wrote:
Anyway, I find it curious that the TC is elected by those within the
developer community but TC candidates talk about representing the
operator
community who are not allowed to vote. Operators meaning Admins,
Architects, etc. It sounds like this is something most TC candidates
want
which most would agree is a good thing. At least I think so. ; )
I'm going to nitpick on terminology a bit. The TC is elected by
*technical contributors*, not developers, as described in the charter:
http://governance.openstack.org/reference/charter.html#voters-for-tc-seats-atc
+1
I think there is a key misconception in this thread that the TC is
supposed to represent (or talk about representing) more than just the
technical contributors that produce OpenStack.
When the OpenStack Foundation was set up, three bodies of governance
were established:
- the Board of Directors (representing the community as a whole)
- the Technical Committee (representing technical contributors)
- the User Committee (representing users and ops of OpenStack)
The Technical Committee mandate is therefore not to represent the users
and Ops of OpenStack in that setup, it's the role of the User committee.
If we did include Ops, we would be clearly overstepping our mandate.
Thierry, essentially I agree with you. I do think though that the disconnect
between Dev & Ops is an unhealthy situation. Two separate bodies working in two
different ways with two different agendas is actually very much against the
current way that most development organizations are aspire towards.
The TC charter [1] states.
" The Technical Committee (“TC”) is tasked with providing the technical
leadership for OpenStack as a whole (all official projects, as defined below).
It enforces OpenStack ideals (Openness, Transparency, Commonality, Integration,
Quality...), decides on issues affecting multiple projects, forms an ultimate
appeals board for technical decisions, and generally has technical oversight
over all of OpenStack."
IMHO, the spirit of the original question that was raised was - how can "all of
OpenStack" only be those who write the code, and not those that use and operate
it on a day to day basis?
Are these thoughts based on the current state of OpenStack? or are they influenced a bit by our past? The reason I ask is because I believe we've come a long way on integrating more with Ops and Users. New groups have been created, new meetups have been run, a dedicated day has been assigned at the summit, a dedicated mailing list - that most of us follow - has been created, etc, etc, etc. I've seen the number of threads to discuss Ops topics increase in openstack-dev and the influence of Ops - even just points of views inherited from the feedback we've got - on reviews has gotten better as well. While I don't consider we're there yet, I do think there have been several improvements in this area, which is why I'm curious to know the answer to my questions above. If it's a matter of having more Ops voting for the TC, we do have a process in place that we could likely improve. Other than that, I believe Thierry and Doug have explained perfectly the issues related to having these 2 groups merged from a *governance* perspective. Flavio
Rather than asking that Ops should be able to elect the TC, you should probably start discussing how to improve on the User committee election process and visibility. It would be great to understand how exactly this was done, what their charter is and how much influence they have on technical decisions within the larger OpenStack as a whole [2] [1] http://governance.openstack.org/reference/charter.html [2] https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/Foundation/UserCommittee -- Best Regards, Maish Saidel-Keesing
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-- @flaper87 Flavio Percoco
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