Hey Tomasz -

I see that *packaging team* have decided to update PostgreSQL to 9.3
[1]. However, we aren't going to use PostgreSQL's JSON column for
VIPs, as it was pointed in the initial mail.

My IMO here - despite the fact PostgreSQL is cool and provides a lot
of useful feature, I'd prefer to be as DB-agnostic as possible.

Thanks,
Igor

[1] 
http://mirror.fuel-infra.org/mos-repos/centos/mos8.0-centos7-fuel/os/x86_64/Packages/

On Mon, Dec 28, 2015 at 11:53 PM, Tomasz Napierala
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just wondering what is fine result and decision? This change is pretty wide 
> and impacts many dev (and users), I think we should be listening to the 
> feedback before making any decision.
>
> Regards,
>
>
>> On 17 Dec 2015, at 11:01, Artem Silenkov <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> Hello!
>> We have merged 9.3 a week ago. From packaging team side downgrade is not an 
>> option and was made by mistake.
>> Regards
>> Artem Silenkov
>> ---
>> MOS-PAckaging
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015, 12:32 Oleg Gelbukh <[email protected]> wrote:
>> In fact, it seems that 9.2 is in the mix since the introduction of centos7. 
>> Thus, all tests that have been made since then are made against 9.2. So, 
>> upgrading it to 9.3 actually is a change that has to be blocked by FF/SCF.
>>
>> Just my 2c.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>> Oleg Gelbukh
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:13 PM, Evgeniy L <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Hi Andrew,
>>
>> It doesn't look fair at all to say that we use Postgres specific feature for 
>> no reasons
>> or as you said "just because we want".
>> For example we used Arrays which fits pretty well for our roles usage, which 
>> improved
>> readability and performance.
>> Or try to fit into relational system something like that [1], I don't think 
>> that we will get
>> a good result.
>>
>> P.S. sending a link to a holywar topic (schema vs schemaless), won't help to 
>> solve our
>> specific problem with Postgres downgrading vs keeping old (new) version.
>>
>> [1] 
>> https://github.com/openstack/fuel-web/blob/master/nailgun/nailgun/fixtures/openstack.yaml
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 10:53 PM, Andrew Maksimov <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>> +1 to Igor suggestion to downgrade Postgres to 9.2. Our users don't work 
>> directly with Postgres, so there is no any deprecation of Fuel features.
>> Maintaining our own custom Postgres package just because we want "JSON 
>> column" is not a rational decision. Come on, fuel is not a billing system 
>> with thousands tables and special requirements to database. At least, we 
>> should try to keep it simple and avoid unnecessary complication.
>>
>> PS
>>  BTW, some people suggest to avoid using  json columns, read [1] PostgreSQL 
>> anti-patterns: unnecessary json columns.
>>
>> [1] - 
>> http://blog.2ndquadrant.com/postgresql-anti-patterns-unnecessary-jsonhstore-dynamic-columns/
>>
>> Regards,
>> Andrey Maximov
>> Fuel Project Manager
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Vladimir Kuklin <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>> Folks
>>
>> Let me add my 2c here.
>>
>> I am for using Postgres 9.3. Here is an additional argument to the ones 
>> provided by Artem, Aleksandra and others.
>>
>> Fuel is being sometimes highly customized by our users for their specific 
>> needs. It has been Postgres 9.3 for a while and they might have as well 
>> gotten used to it and assumed by default that this would not change. So some 
>> of their respective features they are developing for their own sake may 
>> depend on Postgres 9.3 and we will never be able to tell the fraction of 
>> such use cases. Moreover, downgrading DBMS version of Fuel should be 
>> inevitably considered as a 'deprecation' of some features our software suite 
>> is providing to our users. This actually means that we MUST provide our 
>> users with a warning and deprecation period to allow them to adjust to these 
>> changes. Obviously, accidental change of Postgres version does not follow 
>> such a policy in any way. So I see no other ways except for getting back to 
>> Postgres 9.3.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 7:39 PM, Igor Kalnitsky <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>> Hey Mike,
>>
>> Thanks for your input.
>>
>> > actually not.  if you replace your ARRAY columns with JSON entirely,
>>
>> It still needs to fix the code, i.e. change ARRAY-specific queries
>> with JSON ones around the code. ;)
>>
>> > there's already a mostly finished PR for SQLAlchemy support in the queue.
>>
>> Does it mean SQLAlchemy will have one unified interface to make JSON
>> queries? So we can use different backends if necessary?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> - Igor
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 5:06 PM, Mike Bayer <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > On 12/15/2015 07:20 AM, Igor Kalnitsky wrote:
>> >> Hey Julien,
>> >>
>> >>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/openstack-ha-fuel-postgresql
>> >>
>> >> I believe this blueprint is about DB for OpenStack cloud (we use
>> >> Galera now), while here we're talking about DB backend for Fuel
>> >> itself. Fuel has a separate node (so called Fuel Master) and we use
>> >> PostgreSQL now.
>> >>
>> >>> does that mean Fuel is only going to be able to run with PostgreSQL?
>> >>
>> >> Unfortunately we already tied up to PostgreSQL. For instance, we use
>> >> PostgreSQL's ARRAY column type. Introducing JSON column is one more
>> >> way to tighten knots harder.
>> >
>> > actually not.  if you replace your ARRAY columns with JSON entirely,
>> > MySQL has JSON as well now:
>> > https://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.7/en/json.html
>> >
>> > there's already a mostly finished PR for SQLAlchemy support in the queue.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> - Igor
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Dec 15, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Julien Danjou <[email protected]> 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>> On Mon, Dec 14 2015, Igor Kalnitsky wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> The things I want to notice are:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> * Currently we aren't tied up to PostgreSQL 9.3.
>> >>>> * There's a patch [2] that ties Fuel up to PostgreSQL 9.3+ by using a
>> >>>> set of JSON operations.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'm curious and have just a small side question: does that mean Fuel is
>> >>> only going to be able to run with PostgreSQL?
>> >>>
>> >>> I also see
>> >>> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/fuel/+spec/openstack-ha-fuel-postgresql,
>> >>> maybe it's related?
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks!
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Julien Danjou
>> >>> // Free Software hacker
>> >>> // https://julien.danjou.info
>> >>
>> >> __________________________________________________________________________
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>>
>> --
>> Yours Faithfully,
>> Vladimir Kuklin,
>> Fuel Library Tech Lead,
>> Mirantis, Inc.
>> +7 (495) 640-49-04
>> +7 (926) 702-39-68
>> Skype kuklinvv
>> 35bk3, Vorontsovskaya Str.
>> Moscow, Russia,
>> www.mirantis.com
>> www.mirantis.ru
>> [email protected]
>>
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>> --
>> Regards,
>> Artem Silenkov
>> ---
>> Mos~Packaging
>>
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>
> --
> Tomasz 'Zen' Napierala
> Product Engineering - Poland
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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